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The Misguided Move among Evangelicals to Vote for Pro-Choice Candidates (long)

Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:06 am
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
19115 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:06 am
How prevalent it really is I do not know but there is a move afloat in evangelical circles to legitimize voting for pro-choice candidates most notably Biden for president. For as long as I can remember, voting for a pro-choice candidate was anathema in Southern Baptist churches. Although not Southern Baptist this approach was recently expressed by John MacArthur:

quote:

The pastor then explained that he and the president “talked a little bit about why, certainly from a biblical standpoint, Christians could not vote Democratic.”
“There’s no way that a Christian can affirm the slaughter of babies, homosexual activity, homosexual marriage, or any kind of gross immorality,” MacArthur asserted.
“No way we could stand behind a candidate who was affirming transgender behavior, which of course is really the ‘reprobate mind’ of Romans 1.”


LINK

But this bedrock of pro-life support for the unborn is being eroded. And IMO, pro-life is not the only voting issue but it is a prerequisite for my vote.
Here's some examples of what I mean:

1) Bart Barber-Dwight Mcksissic Interview. This article juxtaposes one pastor endorsing Trump and one Biden and gives legitimacy to both.

2) Skye Jethani Twitter (endorsed by Phil Vischer , the creator of Veggie Tales)

3) SBC Voices articles:
a. I Don't See How a Christian Could Vote for
b. Anti-Abortion as Divine Permission for Christian Hatred Misogyny and Racism

IMO, here's how/why:
1) To form a unity with 'black' evangelicals and provide cover for their support of Democrat candidates.
2) Because the meaning of "abortion" is no longer baby murdering. Now it's an abstract concept or a statistic.
3) By introducing a (misguided) "pro all life" concept.

Before going further, let me define "evangelical" in its traditional sense. An evangelical is someone is who: a) affirms the inspiration, infallibility, and authority of the Bible, b) the Bible is the final authority for all matters of faith and practice, and c) salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

More Detailed Discussion
1) To form a unity with 'black' evangelicals and provide cover for their support of Democrat candidates.

Black evangelicals have long supported Democrat candidates. Although they would affirm a pro-life position, they appear to have few reservations about supporting either pro-choice candidates or pro-choice platforms. But the great sin of today is supposedly racism or systemic racism. So white evangelicals in a pursuit of unity with brothers and sisters of color, are now publishing justification for support of pro-choice candidates lest they be viewed as unwitting proponents of systemic racism.

2) Because the meaning of "abortion" is no longer baby murdering. Now it's an abstract concept or a statistic.

When people write articles trying to justify support for pro-choice candidates, they invariably speak of abortion as something less than other than the horrific evil act of brutally murdering one of God's image bearers.

For example, read the Skye Jethani series of twitter posts. Does it read as if it is actually addressing baby murder? Now substitute any other violent practice, e.g., rape or murder or child molestation. Are these to be only managed? Or shouldn't they always be illegal. I mean if the number of slaves is decreasing under pro-slavery candidates, let's keep electing them until the number of slaves is reduced to our acceptable threshold.? (sarcasm)

Holiness and the image of God do not depend on stats. There is no acceptable threshold for baby-murdering. As far as I can tell, the Bible does not promote societies that are allowed some quota of violence.

3) By introducing a (misguided) "pro all life" concept.

On occasion, one will hear the phrase "pro-life from womb to tomb." On its surface I would readily ascribe to such. Yes, the sanctity of life latent in God's image bearers should be respected from beginning to end. But what this means when one delves into its current usage is that it equates many social issues as (im)moral equivalents with abortion. For example, one black SBC pastor from TX wrote this: "Systemic injustice & qualified immunity are the equivalent of pro-life issues, if you are a victim of either, which many minorities are."

I consider myself a pro-lifer. We have 2 hands and 24 hours. I/we would gladly eliminate every vestige of injustice till moons shall wax and wane no more. But we have long held that abortion is the mother lode of all social evils. If we bypass this, practically speaking, is there any moral issue left?

Are there other social ills? Yes. But ,most 'victims' of other forms of injustice do not rush out and commit suicide. They choose to continue living. The victims of abortion are afforded no such option. It's a very small people who find their solution to social issues through baby murdering.

Finally, I don't think we have ever been so close to making baby murdering illegal as we are now. And to see other trying to steal defeat from the jaws of victory is deflect to other and lesser issues is frustrating and infuriating.

One does not have to vote for any candidate. But spare me your hollow arguments supporting pro -baby murder candidates.
This post was edited on 11/1/20 at 12:07 am
Posted by obdobd918
Member since Jun 2020
3228 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:25 am to
quote:

By introducing a (misguided) "pro all life" concept.

If one does not get the issue of life correct, then one can get nothing correct because ALL issues flow from life.
Get abortion wrong and you'll get housing wrong, food stamps wrong, and all other social programs wrong.
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
64402 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:39 am to
quote:

2) Skye Jethani Twitter (endorsed by Phil Vischer , the creator of Veggie Tales)


Holy frick, I looked at her twitter page. She's a fricking loon
Posted by jeffsdad
Member since Mar 2007
23479 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:44 am to
Yeah, sin isn't sin if you can justify it, nope!
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
76145 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:46 am to
quote:

I consider myself a pro-lifer. We have 2 hands and 24 hours. I/we would gladly eliminate every vestige of injustice till moons shall wax and wane no more. But we have long held that abortion is the mother lode of all social evils. If we bypass this, practically speaking, is there any moral issue left?


Say what you will about abortion but how
Would millions more poor people being born to mostly Poor minority single parents fix all moral issues?
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
120740 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:48 am to
She’s also a liar.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
120740 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:49 am to
quote:

Say what you will about abortion but how Would millions more poor people being born to mostly Poor minority single parents fix all moral issues?


So you’re opposed to illegal immigration I take it.
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
20947 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 12:49 am to
quote:

If one does not get the issue of life correct, then one can get nothing correct because ALL issues flow from life.
Get abortion wrong and you'll get housing wrong, food stamps wrong, and all other social programs wrong.

IMO - in Biden’s case it’s worse than this given what his position on abortion is.

Biden personally believes that abortion is the murder of an unborn human being. He has said this.

But Biden doesn’t think it’s his place to tell a woman not to murder her unborn child. He has said this.

So it’s not just that he’s getting policy tragically wrong here and showing poor judgment. He’s also showing what a f’n coward he is. What kind of man sits idly by while he watches about a million human beings snuffed out per year. In fact, he’s not sitting idly by - he’s advocating for more of it.
Posted by Figgy
CenCal
Member since May 2020
9052 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 1:02 am to
No kidding. “Christians Against Trumpism”. These people are deceitful.
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
19115 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 1:05 am to
quote:

Say what you will about abortion but how
Would millions more poor people being born to mostly Poor minority single parents fix all moral issues?


I don't think I could map out a solution to every social challenge. But are you really hinting that we should kill the millions of babies born to mostly poor minority single parents because there are social issues?

What I am (and others are) saying is that if our moral compass doesn't tell us baby-murder is wrong, then what moral issues are there?
This post was edited on 11/1/20 at 1:10 am
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
76145 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 8:19 am to
quote:

What I am (and others are) saying is that if our moral compass doesn't tell us baby-murder is wrong, then what moral issues are there?


I not even saying abortion is a necessary evil. To clarify my own position, I don’t buy into the “it’s always a woman’s choice” BS but I also Don’t but into “life starts at conception.” I Support Abortion limitations based on fetal development, and I agree We allow abortion later than is morally acceptable.
It’s the lefts most anti-science position. I also Think abstinence only education is fricking moronic.

That’s being said, there are a ton of issues that will be compounded if we outright ban abortions. Pretty much all the issues related to poverty and we will have millions more poor children.
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
19115 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 1:50 pm to
Philosophically, medically, and Biblically life begins at conception.

I don't think it necessarily follows that they would be born into abject poverty. But if conceded so, let's solve that problem.

Most of the children now living in poverty don't choose to kill themselves. Life is preferable to death. Or else, following your logic, we are compelled to kill those children now living in poverty. That's not a solution.
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
33694 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

Evangelicals
Pro-Choice Candidates


While the term Evangelical has been bastardized from almost every ideological and ecclesiastical corner, the classical/traditional term Evangelical and the current, prevailing meaning of the term "Pro-Choice" are categorically mutually exclusive.
Posted by hnds2th
Member since May 2019
3096 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

Would millions more poor people being born to mostly Poor minority single parents fix all moral issues?



Because then we have the opportunity to live Jesus’ command to “feed the poor and cloth the naked”. We can’t help them if they are never born.

All, I have to do is ask myself, would Jesus support abortion? If the answer is “no” for Him, it is for me too. His own mother had an unwanted pregnancy, but she said yes to God, despite the difficulties she faced with that decision. Thank God for us.
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
19115 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 2:38 pm to
quote:

While the term Evangelical has been bastardized from almost every ideological and ecclesiastical corner, the classical/traditional term Evangelical and the current, prevailing meaning of the term "Pro-Choice" are categorically mutually exclusive.


Couldn't agree more.

I posited a feeble definition of "evangelical" in the OP for the very reason you've noted.
Posted by Trump2020
Wake forest NC
Member since Oct 2020
36 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 2:44 pm to
The Bible says that in the end times there will be a great falling away and apostate. This is all predicted in the Bible. Not everyone who (B)says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will (C)enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who (D)does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 (E)On that day (F)many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not (G)prophesy in your name, and cast out demons (H)in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 (I)And then will I declare to them, ‘I (J)never knew you; (K)depart from me, (L)you workers of lawlessness.’Mathew 7:21-23
This post was edited on 11/1/20 at 2:57 pm
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
25476 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Holy frick, I looked at her twitter page. She's a fricking loon


She's a he, but I went down that rabbit hole a bit and just found a bunch of one-sided OMB stuff.
Posted by mtntiger
Asheville, NC
Member since Oct 2003
28475 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 3:16 pm to
Anyone claiming to be an evangelical Christian who supports abortion IS NOT a Christian.

The Christian Church long ago came under attack from pro-choicers, queers, you name it. The church literally gave up without a fight in many cases.
This post was edited on 11/1/20 at 5:02 pm
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
19115 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

Anyone claiming to be an evangelical Christian who supports abortion IS NOT a Christian.


I tried to point out in the OP how some are navigating around this. They would argue they too are pro-life (and even in a superior sense of "womb-to-tomb" as opposed to us who are only pro-life for the pre-born).

In their view, police brutality, immigration, and "systemic racism" are also "life" issues. And since Democratic policies are 'stronger' on these issues, and regardless of whose in office the # of abortions are decreasing, we need to find another 'life' issue to fixate on.

My response is that if conceded that these are indeed prevalent issues, those who are victims do not rush out to commit suicide. To them life as victims is preferable to death. The victims of baby-murder are afforded no other option.
Posted by Trump2020
Wake forest NC
Member since Oct 2020
36 posts
Posted on 11/1/20 at 4:07 pm to
These so called Evangelicals can't deny that God calls a "fetus" human life. Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah 1:5 They can try to justify their new stance all they want but, God does not agree.
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