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Message
re: Trump vs Obama on the economy
Posted on 9/7/20 at 1:05 pm to S1C EM
Posted on 9/7/20 at 1:05 pm to S1C EM
Obama said manufacturing jobs were gone and never coming back. He also said high unemployment was the new norm.
That tells you everything. He had zero business experience like most politicians. He couldn't know what he didn't know.
Trump's economy was on point in just about every way possible. Not even a comparison.
That tells you everything. He had zero business experience like most politicians. He couldn't know what he didn't know.
Trump's economy was on point in just about every way possible. Not even a comparison.
0
Posted on 9/7/20 at 1:05 pm to oklahogjr
What did Obama do? TARP was signed under the Bush administration. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 under Obama paid off his donors and didn't do squat for the American people.
quote:
Why did you skip all the stuff Obama did, to give trump a much stronger base to start off from? I feel like you're just skipping over all the groundwork to talk about how great trump is without realizing how Obama contributed to this latest economic run that started underneath Obama.
Posted on 9/7/20 at 1:52 pm to dbat
quote:
What did Obama do?
Cash for Clunkers?
Posted on 9/7/20 at 2:00 pm to frogtown
Has any POTUS other than obama have 8 years of fed rates below 1 percent?
Posted on 9/7/20 at 2:10 pm to oklahogjr
To the rescue!
Posted on 9/7/20 at 2:25 pm to bluedragon
Damn accurate post. He didn't tank the economy nor did he really help it. I felt it was anemic. Had you put Trump in that time frame with these policies you could have seen major results. It is hard to take that administration seriously with the corporate tax rate they wanted to pimp. They stood by and watched jobs leave when just making that rate competitive with the rest of the world would have made a difference.
Posted on 9/7/20 at 2:28 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
Obama actually did a good job here despite what most think.
What did he actually do to make the economy better?
Don't get me wrong Obama didn't destroy the economy or anything but I don't see where he actively made it much better in a sustainable manner.
You can point to a number of things Trump did to improve the economy.
Posted on 9/7/20 at 2:49 pm to bluedragon
quote:
Myth two ... The Us was headed toward a depression. BS
By the time Obama takes his shoes off in the White House, the results of the Real Estate Bubble were subsiding. There was no coming depression.
Obama talked his way into stimulus money to be used to "stop the blood flow" Really? Giving money to Union Bosses stopped the blood flow? If you have an economics professor spewing that crap ...it's time to change classes.
What in Obama's past leads anyone to believe that he could save the world economically? He simply does not have nor ever did have the talent or experience.
Watching his Economic Advisors over the years has been laughable at best. The best they can claim is they somehow stopped the bleed. The economy was healing itself.
in the 15 months before Obama took office, the market dropped from an all time high of 14,000 down to 8,000. It lost 43 percent.
During his term it then went from 8,000 to 20,000 (thats +150, if you were wondering)
But sure, ok. No depression. Didnt stop the bleeding. Everything fixed itself. His advisors were laughable and youre the genius.
That all makes perfect sense.
This post was edited on 9/7/20 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 9/7/20 at 3:19 pm to Zion
DJIA actually closed below 18k on 11/4/2016. Any gains between election an inauguration would much more likely be due to optimism from a president elect Trump than any lasting Obama policies. So Obama moved the ATH from 14k to 18k in 8 years (+29%). Trump took it from 18k to 29k in <4 years (61%). I would use the SP500 as better indicator of the overall market but you used the Dow so I followed suit.
I am sure you will argue the gains in between the election and inauguration and that comparing all time highs isn't the best metric. It is much easier to increase 150% when you have fallen 43% than increasing 60% when you are already near all time highs especially in less than 1/2 the time. If the DJIA jumped another 61% in the next 4 years that would put it at 47k which would be a bigger gain than Obama versus the bottom let alone ATHs. It is also important to note that the stock market is not the economy.
I am sure you will argue the gains in between the election and inauguration and that comparing all time highs isn't the best metric. It is much easier to increase 150% when you have fallen 43% than increasing 60% when you are already near all time highs especially in less than 1/2 the time. If the DJIA jumped another 61% in the next 4 years that would put it at 47k which would be a bigger gain than Obama versus the bottom let alone ATHs. It is also important to note that the stock market is not the economy.
Posted on 9/7/20 at 3:28 pm to S1C EM
Obama Feb 2009 after inauguration
Unemployment rate 8.3
Obama August 2012 before 2nd election
Unemployment rate 8.1
Trump August 2020 after summer of pandemic and before 2nd election
Unemployment rate 8.4
Selective stats, sure. But they are interesting.
Unemployment rate 8.3
Obama August 2012 before 2nd election
Unemployment rate 8.1
Trump August 2020 after summer of pandemic and before 2nd election
Unemployment rate 8.4
Selective stats, sure. But they are interesting.
Posted on 9/7/20 at 3:34 pm to crazyatthecamp
That is interesting. In one of those links I posted, they talk about how Trump said he’d bring back manufacturing jobs, but that those were now taking a hit from tariffs. What’s the story with that? Also, any context to Obama having two years of GDP above 5%?
Posted on 9/7/20 at 4:22 pm to S1C EM
When the debt soon exceeds the GDP you can thank Obama. Dude inherited a recession and still had the weakest recovery numbers since the 40s, he added millions to poverty and an unprecedented amount to welfare. Barak Obama is the worst president in our nations history by a wholistic comparison and largely because of the economic rot he injected into the country.
Posted on 9/7/20 at 4:25 pm to oklahogjr
quote:which is what
Why did you skip all the stuff Obama did
quote:ah geez this is so stupid. stronger than what? trump inherited what he inherited - crap. and then the economy took off like almost never before. obama was keeping the economy down and unemployment up. "new normal" "those jobs aren't coming back"
to give trump a much stronger base to start off from?
quote:i've already demonstrated in numerous threads how this is just patently false. yet you keep repeating it
Obama contributed to this latest economic run that started underneath Obama
Posted on 9/7/20 at 4:28 pm to Walnut
quote:this is precisely what people use to oversimplify the discussion. the president is only responsible for so much. he can create regulations to make govt interfere with business thus causing unfavorable conditions. or he can get govt out of the way and let businesses do what they do. trump did the latter and it is working fabulously. it's yet more unneeded proof that capitalism works for everyone.
outside of the president’s control
Posted on 9/7/20 at 4:30 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
I never saw such hatred from people for a candidate before
Mirror?
Posted on 9/7/20 at 4:37 pm to michael corleone
quote:obama was printing money hand over fist and artificially keeping inflation/interest rates low. trump hasn't had those benefits and the economy is still seeing better numbers across the board than obama. even the last bastion of criticism against trump, real wage growth, has eroded. not only are wages up but household income is up and the housing market is doing well.
neither wages, or employment increased relative to the increase in the cost of goods. From 2016 —2020, wages, employment, and increased greater than the cost of goods. This is the true sign of a growing and robust economy
as if all that weren't enough, the economy is pacing itself which helps to eliminate the risk of a bubble.
there is no comparison between the two
Posted on 9/7/20 at 4:47 pm to bluedragon
quote:this does not get discussed enough. they were playing up the "recession" and even talking about a second recession when really, it was just his policies hurting businesses. the recession was way overplayed. heck, even the recession was started by the progressive policy of inadvisable lending in the c.r.i.
There was no coming depression
quote:this is another point most people miss. the economy, americans and their businesses, usually find a way to survive during these lib phases. the depression is an example. progressive policies kept the depression going longer than necessary.
The economy was healing itself
quote:repatriation is yet another economic feather in trump's cap as is staving off businesses closing locations
Manufacturing was running to other shores
Posted on 9/7/20 at 4:51 pm to Zion
quote:why do people think the president controls the stock market? the president's economic policies and the stock market are only very very loosely connected to each other in a very generalized way. the stock market does not always and directly reflect the economic performance of the president. they can be related depending on many complicated factors. obama's policies sucked regardless of what the market did. trump has been quite effective regardless of what the market is doing
the market
quote:it does if you understand what the stock market really is
That all makes perfect sense
Posted on 9/7/20 at 4:51 pm to bod312
quote:
DJIA actually closed below 18k on 11/4/2016. Any gains between election an inauguration would much more likely be due to optimism from a president elect Trump than any lasting Obama policies.
dude are you kidding me with this?
first of all, no, the cut off date is never ever election day, its inaccurate enough to make it inauguration day but thats the one everyone uses. especially since, for the first half of Obamas final year, the market went from 16,000 to 18,600. Thats +16.25 percent.
The second half went 18,600 to 19,800. Thats +6.4 percent.
growth did not magically spike because of optimism over trump. It did in fact slow down.
quote:
So Obama moved the ATH from 14k to 18k in 8 years (+29%). Trump took it from 18k to 29k in <4 years (61%).
and I cant even put this level of bias into words. Youre not only cutting Obams number off early, but in what fantasy world was the market at 14,000 when he took over? You dont just ignore that it dropped to 8,000 before he even started, and then still use 14,000 for his 8 year number.
this isnt even good bias, its so instantly transparently stupid I dont know why you even bothered to write it down.
I never compared Obama to trump but we can if you want; in Obamas second term the market went from 13,649 to 19,827. Thats +45.26 percent.
19,827 to trumps peak of 29,398 is +48.27 percent.
Posted on 9/7/20 at 5:01 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:you're likely citing the u3 number, not the u6 number. uh oh, get ready for it - obama's team fudged the numbers by not including the "discouraged workers" and "underemployed." (here comes the flaming lib brigade)
Unemployment rate 8.3
obama's initial number was 14 and rose to 17. trump's initial number was 10 and was down at 7 before the virus outbreak.
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