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re: On this day in 1866, Ulysses S. Grant became the first 4-star general in U.S. Army history

Posted on 7/25/20 at 12:45 pm to
Posted by AUCE05
Member since Dec 2009
42582 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 12:45 pm to
Lee was an idiot. He had a huge advantage from a military POV and couldn't leverage it. Thankfully.
Posted by AUsteriskPride
Albuquerque, NM
Member since Feb 2011
18385 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

Lee was an idiot. He had a huge advantage from a military POV and couldn't leverage it. Thankfully


Do tell about his huge advantages, very curious.
Posted by AUCE05
Member since Dec 2009
42582 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 12:52 pm to
Winning meant different things to each side. The north wanted to maintain the union where the south was wanting to separate. That meant the north had to invade. The general consensus amongst the northern population was to not fight. Had Lee utilized trench warfare like many of his advisors were suggesting, they could have prolonged the war a few more years and made Lincoln pull out. The invasions on NY, and offensive strategy on open battle fields from Lee was terrible.
Posted by Commandeaux
Zachary
Member since Jul 2009
7328 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 12:57 pm to
US Grant, the man who changed the Confederate flag from stars and bars to all white.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

he was the commanding general of the Confederacy the entire time.


No, he wasn't. He didn't take command of the Army of Northern Virginia until June 1, 1862 and wasn't named General-in-Chief of all Confederate forces until February 6, 1865.
This post was edited on 7/25/20 at 1:12 pm
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 1:13 pm to
Thank you.

The hero worship of lee is mind boggling to me.

Dude was an idiot.
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48677 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 1:18 pm to
Congrats on the sex !
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

Dude was an idiot.


I wouldn't go that far. In fact...I wouldn't go near that far. I have criticized Robert E. Lee for his lack of big picture thinking, but the man certainly wasn't an idiot. He was schooled in the ways of Napoleonic warfare and that schooling taught him that the advantage lay with the force that attacks first. Every general officer in the Civil War who attended West Point was taught that line of thinking. Offensive warfare was the name of the game. The problem with this line of thinking, however, is that the technology had outgrown the tactics of the period. By the spring of 1864, you began to see trench warfare become more and more of a thing, until the lines began to resemble World War I battlefields by the time armies arrive at Petersburg in June of that year.

Should Lee have been aggressive as he was? In hindsight, I think it's difficult to argue otherwise. He bled his army dry with his aggressive tactics and ended up having very little in the tank when the final showdown began against Grant in May 1864. But the man had some brilliant victories which, if he had the reserves to follow up with, could have turned the war around heavily in his favor. The lack of reserves really cost him at Second Manassas and at Chancellorsville. Had he had additional troops to follow up Longstreet's assault on the plains before Bull Run, or additional troops behind Jackson's initial flank attack in the Wilderness around Chancellorsville, it's very likely the war could have gone much differently.

Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 1:24 pm to
Calling him an idiot is internet hyperbole, but seriously, frick him.

He had a path to victory and chose the wrong path.
Posted by AUsteriskPride
Albuquerque, NM
Member since Feb 2011
18385 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

Calling him an idiot is internet hyperbole, but seriously, frick him.

He had a path to victory and chose the wrong path.


I honestly don't know if he wanted the path to victory. He was always torn on state rights and the conservation of the union through Constitutional means.
Posted by AUCE05
Member since Dec 2009
42582 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 1:46 pm to
I agree with you here. I felt like he was conflicted. But the south had major advantages. Labor alone would have made trench warfare problematic for union troops. They were not built or trained for gorilla and siege warfare.
Posted by Stealth Matrix
29°59'55.98"N 90°05'21.85"W
Member since Aug 2019
8025 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

Imagine what he could have done to Robert E. Lee and his army had he fought him sober.


Given that he was probably functionally alcoholic, he may have done a lot worse.
Posted by magildachunks
Member since Oct 2006
32531 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 2:48 pm to
Glory, Glory Hallelujah indeed.
Posted by xGeauxLSUx
United States of Atrophy
Member since Oct 2008
21069 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

He looks sleepy
Probably drunk.
Posted by xGeauxLSUx
United States of Atrophy
Member since Oct 2008
21069 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

Thank you.

The hero worship of lee is mind boggling to me.

Dude was an idiot.
Damn.
Don't tell all the military leaders, strategists, and historians throughout the ages that say otherwise.
Posted by magildachunks
Member since Oct 2006
32531 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

Don't tell all the military leaders, strategists, and historians throughout the ages that say otherwise.






Today I learned 150 years is known as "throughout the ages".



Posted by AlonsoWDC
Memphis, where it ain't Ten-a-Key
Member since Aug 2014
8787 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

Imagine what Robert E Lee could have done with Grants resources and manpower.


We'd probably be reunited by a German.
Posted by Zendog
Santa Barbara
Member since Feb 2019
4614 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 3:30 pm to
Who cares, he’s racist
Posted by xGeauxLSUx
United States of Atrophy
Member since Oct 2008
21069 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

Today I learned 150 years is known as "throughout the ages".
No defined time of an 'age'.
But have it your way...
quote:

Don't tell all the military leaders, strategists, and historians throughout the last 159 years that say otherwise.

Is that better for you, pumpkin?
Posted by rotrain
Member since Feb 2013
390 posts
Posted on 7/25/20 at 3:52 pm to
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we’d all have a merry christmas. Lee was an average general who chose the wrong reason to fight on a side that couldnt win a war they initiated to protect a terrible way of life.
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