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Message

Biden wants to kill 1031 Exchanges (read this. it's important)
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:31 pm
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:31 pm
I know most people don't care/understand what this would mean to the economy or the precedent it would set so here is my 2¢. This is a very simple overview from the perspective of a small real estate investor (AKA *Bob*)
FIRST, what is a 1031 Exchange?
A 1031 Exchange is a federal tax code mechanism that allows a person who sells an investment property to roll the entire proceeds into a new investment property without having to pay the capital gains tax. It has been around since the 1920s. It is the mechanism that powers a ton of new construction which- in turn- keeps the real estate market moving forward *vigorously*. The 1031 is the fuel that keeps dollars investing in real estate which in turn employs a shite ton of people, from construction guys to real estate agents. It is how old shitty parts of town get gentrified, new housing is built, etc... It is the fuel that keeps progress going.
What Biden's plan does...
Biden's platform wants to go after the *stored value* of 1031 Exchanges and apply a tax bill on the unrealized capital gains that is payable immediately.
Give me an example of what any of that means...
For instance, let's say Bob bought a commercial building in 1990 for $300k. He rented it out for 10 years and ultimately sold it in 2003 for $600k. He likes the real estate business and just want to roll the proceeds into a new real estate investment so he buys a new property for $600k and avoids capital gains through using a 1031. That property then goes up in value and he sells it in 2015 for $1.5M then takes those proceeds and spreads it out across the acquisition of three multi-family properties. Bob has spent his life using real estate as his retirement plan. He has no big 401K since his plan has always been to live off the rents generated through his real estate investments. His lifestyle is based on cash-flow from his real estate investments.
Biden's plan blows that up like an atom bomb...
How Biden's plan destroys Bob's life.
So let's say that Biden wins and the progressives get the senate too- which gives them the ability to pass a bill that effectively repeals the power of the 1031 Exchange in the way that Biden wants. A capital gains tax would be due on the difference between Bob's tax-basis (the $300k he originally spent on the commercial building in 1990) and the current value (the $1.5M). If Bob is paying cap-gains tax at a 25% tax rate that means Bob will have to figure out how to scrounge together $300K for the Biden real estate tax, all due in the current tax year. Wow. frick.
How does Bob pay that?
Well, Bob is like most of these smaller real estate investors. He doesn't have $300k sitting around, it's all in investment properties that he has poured his life into building. He doesn't have an investment portfolio of stocks, he has a portfolio of real estate holdings that have cash-flow on which he can take care of his family and his retirement. 'MERICA!
Unfortunately for Bob, Biden's tax means that his entire plan for life and retirement has been blown up. He has to sell his properties to pay the tax bill which means that his end-of-life plan (retirement) is gone. And it is made even worse by the fact that every other small real estate investor is in exactly the same position at exactly the same time! His life's work (building a decent life through real estate investment) is now worth pennies on the dollar because the market get stuffed with real estate with no buyers since the upside of real estate investment has been eliminated. His $1.5M 'estate' gets acquired by Goldman Sachs or some other cash-rich organization for $450k, he gives the tax man $300k and his life has resulted in $150k of *profit* and the elimination of any cash-flow he was relying on for retirement.
Anyway, it is apparently small shite like this that the left will use as the 'precedent' to come after anywhere there is stored value. You know what other item is viewed as unfair stored-value by them? Stock investments, your 401k, precious metals, etc...
So here is what you need to know. They are going after what they view as a small group and that they can get public support to go after them. Notice, they're not going after REITs since those are largely backed by the big boys. They are going after small, independent real estate investors. That's no big deal right?
Just know that this is what progressives do: They do something that appears to be small in order to use the precedent to do something huge. This would be a precedent against *stored value*. Pensions, 401k's, and stock portfolios would be next.
FIRST, what is a 1031 Exchange?
A 1031 Exchange is a federal tax code mechanism that allows a person who sells an investment property to roll the entire proceeds into a new investment property without having to pay the capital gains tax. It has been around since the 1920s. It is the mechanism that powers a ton of new construction which- in turn- keeps the real estate market moving forward *vigorously*. The 1031 is the fuel that keeps dollars investing in real estate which in turn employs a shite ton of people, from construction guys to real estate agents. It is how old shitty parts of town get gentrified, new housing is built, etc... It is the fuel that keeps progress going.
What Biden's plan does...
Biden's platform wants to go after the *stored value* of 1031 Exchanges and apply a tax bill on the unrealized capital gains that is payable immediately.
Give me an example of what any of that means...
For instance, let's say Bob bought a commercial building in 1990 for $300k. He rented it out for 10 years and ultimately sold it in 2003 for $600k. He likes the real estate business and just want to roll the proceeds into a new real estate investment so he buys a new property for $600k and avoids capital gains through using a 1031. That property then goes up in value and he sells it in 2015 for $1.5M then takes those proceeds and spreads it out across the acquisition of three multi-family properties. Bob has spent his life using real estate as his retirement plan. He has no big 401K since his plan has always been to live off the rents generated through his real estate investments. His lifestyle is based on cash-flow from his real estate investments.
Biden's plan blows that up like an atom bomb...
How Biden's plan destroys Bob's life.
So let's say that Biden wins and the progressives get the senate too- which gives them the ability to pass a bill that effectively repeals the power of the 1031 Exchange in the way that Biden wants. A capital gains tax would be due on the difference between Bob's tax-basis (the $300k he originally spent on the commercial building in 1990) and the current value (the $1.5M). If Bob is paying cap-gains tax at a 25% tax rate that means Bob will have to figure out how to scrounge together $300K for the Biden real estate tax, all due in the current tax year. Wow. frick.
How does Bob pay that?
Well, Bob is like most of these smaller real estate investors. He doesn't have $300k sitting around, it's all in investment properties that he has poured his life into building. He doesn't have an investment portfolio of stocks, he has a portfolio of real estate holdings that have cash-flow on which he can take care of his family and his retirement. 'MERICA!
Unfortunately for Bob, Biden's tax means that his entire plan for life and retirement has been blown up. He has to sell his properties to pay the tax bill which means that his end-of-life plan (retirement) is gone. And it is made even worse by the fact that every other small real estate investor is in exactly the same position at exactly the same time! His life's work (building a decent life through real estate investment) is now worth pennies on the dollar because the market get stuffed with real estate with no buyers since the upside of real estate investment has been eliminated. His $1.5M 'estate' gets acquired by Goldman Sachs or some other cash-rich organization for $450k, he gives the tax man $300k and his life has resulted in $150k of *profit* and the elimination of any cash-flow he was relying on for retirement.
Anyway, it is apparently small shite like this that the left will use as the 'precedent' to come after anywhere there is stored value. You know what other item is viewed as unfair stored-value by them? Stock investments, your 401k, precious metals, etc...
So here is what you need to know. They are going after what they view as a small group and that they can get public support to go after them. Notice, they're not going after REITs since those are largely backed by the big boys. They are going after small, independent real estate investors. That's no big deal right?
Just know that this is what progressives do: They do something that appears to be small in order to use the precedent to do something huge. This would be a precedent against *stored value*. Pensions, 401k's, and stock portfolios would be next.
This post was edited on 7/21/20 at 8:56 pm
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:33 pm to stickly
Joe Biden’s handlers are scum. His supporters are scum/abject idiots. Biden is a putz
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:37 pm to stickly
He will sell this as making the rich pay fair taxes.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:40 pm to AthensTiger
quote:
He will sell this as making the rich pay fair taxes.
Of course he will. He is not starting his assault on the system by going after the *carried interest* VC/PE loophole. He is going after small fry like independent real estate investors...
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:41 pm to stickly
Remember, Americans, don’t go after Biden. Go after the socialists pulling his strings.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:41 pm to stickly
The tax is going to be much higher than what you said. I assume that he has been depreciating the property and deducting that amount from income.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:42 pm to stickly
Does this mean fewer farmhouse chic flip houses?
If so, I'm in.
If so, I'm in.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:45 pm to stickly
Fair Warning: If he gets this passed, they'll be coming after the capital gains on the home next.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:46 pm to stickly
I have one problem with th OP. The reality is much worse than the picture he painted.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:46 pm to BeepNode
quote:
Does this mean fewer farmhouse chic flip houses?
If so, I'm in.
No. It means the complete destruction of upward mobility, the destruction of the construction industry, the destruction of the real estate industry, the end of gentrification (old shitty neighborhoods being made better), and- most importantly- the end of the lifetime safety net you think you have are entitled to. Your retirement accounts and pensions are next.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:48 pm to stickly
Do you have a link to this proposal or a clip of Biden explaining it?
I’d like to read the rationale of why he’s behind it
I’d like to read the rationale of why he’s behind it
This post was edited on 7/21/20 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:50 pm to boosiebadazz
I’m sure the rationale is “The rich aren’t paying their fair share.”
Which frankly fits with the entire Dem platform.
Which frankly fits with the entire Dem platform.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:50 pm to stickly
quote:
It means the complete destruction of upward mobility, the destruction of the construction industry, the destruction of the real estate industry,
I will support Biden on this one issue if you promise to keep fear-mongering like this.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:50 pm to stickly
Actually this is how people in real estate Pay little to no taxes. It’s the same way with stocks. You only get taxes if you sell and keep the money.
The only people it really benefits are the children that become trust fund babies. In reality the money should be taxed because it’s a transaction and everything else is taxed, why not real estate. I’m totally against it.
The only people it really benefits are the children that become trust fund babies. In reality the money should be taxed because it’s a transaction and everything else is taxed, why not real estate. I’m totally against it.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:51 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Do you have a link to this proposal or a clip of Biden explaining it?
Bloomberg
He's after it because he needs to buy a lot of votes. Pretty elementary. Anyone that has anything of value is the target of the left's progressive agenda. The end.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:51 pm to BeepNode
quote:
I will support Biden on this one issue if you promise to keep fear-mongering like this.
1031 exchange is a huge tax relief especially for middle class folks selling/buying property.
Its not far fetched to say the toll it would have on real estate specifically followed by contruction.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:52 pm to Mud_Till_May
What they should do is tax stock owners. That’s the real money. They charge you property tax, why not a stock ownership tax?
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:53 pm to Magician2
At the least, the massive glut of property to be dumped if this goes through will single-handledly cause a real estate crash.
Real estate is already getting fricked thanks to Covid and telecommuting. This makes it that much worse.
Real estate is already getting fricked thanks to Covid and telecommuting. This makes it that much worse.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:53 pm to stickly
Thanks, stickly, for the time you put into your post.
One question: are you sure about the retroactive taxation of prior 1031 exchanges? I haven't seen anything about that...from what I read, it seems like he just wants to do away with 1031 exchanges going forward.
If he does want to retroactively tax the deferred gains on past 1031 exchanges (and this some how passes Constitutional review), the economic impact would be devastating.
One question: are you sure about the retroactive taxation of prior 1031 exchanges? I haven't seen anything about that...from what I read, it seems like he just wants to do away with 1031 exchanges going forward.
If he does want to retroactively tax the deferred gains on past 1031 exchanges (and this some how passes Constitutional review), the economic impact would be devastating.
Posted on 7/21/20 at 5:54 pm to Mud_Till_May
quote:
What they should do is tax stock owners. That’s the real money. They charge you property tax, why not a stock ownership tax?
Stick to doing what you do best which is selling glue down laminates
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