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Message
Choke Hold Ban
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:16 am
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:16 am
I get choked several times a week training Jiu Jitsu. On some days, it can be multiple times within an hour. Me nor any of the other students in my Academy have yet to die from it. Perhaps the problem is training? Just a thought.
15
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:17 am to DucTape
Time to fire up the tasers.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:19 am to DucTape
I did want to add, applying a choke with a baton is pretty nasty. There are wind chokes and blood chokes and should be differentiated.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:24 am to DucTape
Can we put an “all bets are off” clause in there to protect the cops? Like if you swing at the cops, spit at the cops, push the cops, attack the cops they have the right to protect themselves.
If they have choke hold ban what’s the point of having or not having a body camera??
If they have choke hold ban what’s the point of having or not having a body camera??
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:27 am to DucTape
quote:of course it is.
Perhaps the problem is training? Just a thought.
quote:Do you think the criminal should just be able to tap the forearm of the officer and the hold is released?
I get choked several times a week training Jiu Jitsu
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:27 am to DucTape
I also do alot of jiu jitsu, but here's a few thoughts:
The fact that we're choking each other at jiu jitsu has a few important differences. Mainly the facts that we're all generally healthy enough to participate and we're in a controlled environment. We also don't intentionally choke each other out. The rate of tapping to a choke vs. choking out is probably in the range of 99.9 to .1%
So you have 999 choke taps to 1 choke out (maybe even less), and the 1 choke out is in a safe environment with healthy individuals.
Now if we consider the circumstances when police would choke someone:
- Chaotic environments
- Unhealthy suspects (drugged, bad hearts, etc.)
- Choking them until they stop resisting, almost certainly implying a choke out rather than a tap out
If at jiu jitsu we did not accept taps and choked out partners every single time, I do believe even in a safe environment with healthy participants we would see accidental deaths just by playing the numbers.
For police interactions I don't think choking people to stop their resistance and gain their compliance is a viable solution unless deadly force is necessary.
I think it's worth considering the fact that if you put an officer in a choke, the officer would certainly believe that to be deadly force and would be justified in shooting in response. Or, if an officer saw a partner being choked out by a suspect, the officer would be justified in running up and shooting the suspect in the head. If we recognize the use of choking against officers as a deadly force attack, we should probably also recognize that the use of chokes by officers constitutes a potentially deadly use of force.
The fact that we're choking each other at jiu jitsu has a few important differences. Mainly the facts that we're all generally healthy enough to participate and we're in a controlled environment. We also don't intentionally choke each other out. The rate of tapping to a choke vs. choking out is probably in the range of 99.9 to .1%
So you have 999 choke taps to 1 choke out (maybe even less), and the 1 choke out is in a safe environment with healthy individuals.
Now if we consider the circumstances when police would choke someone:
- Chaotic environments
- Unhealthy suspects (drugged, bad hearts, etc.)
- Choking them until they stop resisting, almost certainly implying a choke out rather than a tap out
If at jiu jitsu we did not accept taps and choked out partners every single time, I do believe even in a safe environment with healthy participants we would see accidental deaths just by playing the numbers.
For police interactions I don't think choking people to stop their resistance and gain their compliance is a viable solution unless deadly force is necessary.
I think it's worth considering the fact that if you put an officer in a choke, the officer would certainly believe that to be deadly force and would be justified in shooting in response. Or, if an officer saw a partner being choked out by a suspect, the officer would be justified in running up and shooting the suspect in the head. If we recognize the use of choking against officers as a deadly force attack, we should probably also recognize that the use of chokes by officers constitutes a potentially deadly use of force.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:28 am to DucTape
Thanks Sean
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:33 am to DucTape
Choke holds are already banned. Next?
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:38 am to DucTape
You apply a choke to finish a sparring round. Sometimes you feign the application of a choke you don't have proper leverage to apply to bait your opponent into another joint lock or choke that you have a higher chance of successful application or to get your self into a more dominant position. Position over submission.
Cops generally don't need to use chokeholds for control. Cops need to use effective control techniques. They are far less dangerous and are superior for achieving the desired result.
Cops generally don't need to use chokeholds for control. Cops need to use effective control techniques. They are far less dangerous and are superior for achieving the desired result.
This post was edited on 6/10/20 at 9:39 am
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:39 am to DucTape
quote:Oh you died, trust George. Just nobody was filming and thus no parades so, once you died, you got better.
I get choked several times a week training Jiu Jitsu. On some days, it can be multiple times within an hour. Me nor any of the other students in my Academy have yet to die from it. Perhaps the problem is training? Just a thought.
I'm sure this ban will work just as well or better than the gun bans, drug bans, etc.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:40 am to Huey Lewis
quote:
For police interactions I don't think choking people to stop their resistance and gain their compliance is a viable solution unless deadly force is necessary.
I was under the impression that police aren't just walking up to random folks and choking them out.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:41 am to DucTape
do you have the same sensei as tick tock?
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:44 am to BlackAdam
quote:
Position over submission.
And there is no better position than being on the back with one arm around the neck. I can control most folks fairly easy from there without applying the choke. Hence my original post about training.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:49 am to Huey Lewis
quote:
- Chaotic environments
- Unhealthy suspects (drugged, bad hearts, etc.)
- Choking them until they stop resisting, almost certainly implying a choke out rather than a tap out
You should actually look into the bodily processes that go into passing out from a choke. It’s insanely safe to be choked unconscious unless you have an aneurism or a stroke which is rare.
Next time that you get a RNC or guillotine applied to you, notice that you feel like your head is going to explode from a blood pressure spike, not like you’re being deprived of blood. That’s because a chokehold actually makes your intracranial blood pressure rise (not drop like most people believe), and your body responds by dialating the blood vessels in your brain to equalize what it’s perceiving as your body’s blood pressure going haywire. Long story short, you pass out because of the sudden blood pressure drop in your skull as a result of your body dilating those blood vessels.
Very safe, very temporary, isn’t really affected by other health conditions in the body. Thought the BJJ guys on this board would find that interesting, I certainly did
ETA: it also takes about 5 minutes extra of having a chokehold applied while you’re unconscious to die. It’s hard as frick to kill someone with one
This post was edited on 6/10/20 at 9:53 am
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:57 am to DucTape
Check your choke privilege
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:18 am to DucTape
quote:
And there is no better position than being on the back with one arm around the neck. I can control most folks fairly easy from there without applying the choke. Hence my original post about training.
I think I was agreeing with you. A dominant control position can adequately restrain someone while keeping both the officer and the perp safe.
The problem with the position you describe is that it usually can't be applied standing, and it would be pretty dangerous for an officer to go to the ground and set in a couple of hooks. In most circumstances it takes away too much mobility.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:28 am to tigerfoot
quote:
I get choked several times a week training Jiu Jitsu
Do you think the criminal should just be able to tap the forearm of the officer and the hold is released?
They can. It's called stop resisting
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:29 am to DucTape
Does this apply to the MMA?
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:33 am to jmarto1
quote:Like George Floyd?
They can. It's called stop resisting
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:36 am to tigerfoot
quote:
They can. It's called stop resisting
Like George Floyd?
What happens more often? Someone resists and forces the officers to escalate or the officer goes to far and kills someone? We both know the answer
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