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Batman (1989) all the way to Batman Begins (2005)

Posted on 5/28/20 at 12:57 am
Posted by GeorgeTheGreek
Sparta, Greece
Member since Mar 2008
68725 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 12:57 am
Ridiculous, I know ... but I’ve never seen any Batman movie.

Now, with that said I know these are different sets of movies but do they play off of each other at all?

Is it helpful if I see the late 80s/early 90s Batmans before ramping up to the more violent late 2000 Batmans?

Going to go balls deep into Batman this weekend and want to know if it matters at all,

Thanks, I’ll hang up and listen.
Posted by OrangeEmpire
Parts Unknown
Member since Feb 2020
6179 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 1:04 am to
Batman and Batman Returns are Tim Burton films.

Batman Returns was deemed to dark and not family friendly and that's how we got Joel Schumacher's campy Batman Forever and Batman and Robin.

Mind you, Batman and Robin killed the franchise.

Nolan took over and wanted to ground the story of Batman in reality.

Batman v Superman brings Zack Snyder's version of Batman which is inspired by Frank Miller's Batman from The Dark Knight Returns.
Posted by OrangeEmpire
Parts Unknown
Member since Feb 2020
6179 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 1:04 am to
If you really want to go balls deep, you have to also explore the animated versions of Batman.

Posted by Brosef Stalin
Member since Dec 2011
41729 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 1:05 am to
The first four Batman movies are in the same continuity. Batman Begins is completely separate.
Posted by GeorgeTheGreek
Sparta, Greece
Member since Mar 2008
68725 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 1:08 am to
That was a really thorough explanation that I don’t think actually answered my question. Thanks?
Posted by GeorgeTheGreek
Sparta, Greece
Member since Mar 2008
68725 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 1:09 am to
Posted by Jack Ruby
Member since Apr 2014
26636 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 1:19 am to
When you watch Batman 1989, just remember that no significant super hero film had been made since Superman in 1978. It was also probably the biggest movie marketing campaign I can remember.

It's still incredible. Burton was like 29 years old when he made it and had only made PeeWee's Big Adventure beforehand. It's my favorite by far. It's the best depiction of Gotham City you'll see.
Posted by KirkLazarus
Member since Aug 2017
3574 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 1:21 am to
I can enjoy Batman & Robin for how bad it is, its entertaining, like The Room. Batman Forever shouldn't be hated on that much. Its funny that Edward Nygma is The Cable Guy and Bruce Wayne is Matthew Broderick within the Batman universe.

Batman rankings:

1. Nolan's

2. Burton's



3. Schumacher's & Snyder's



Posted by PhilipMarlowe
Member since Mar 2013
21759 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 2:05 am to
Tim Burton’s Batman movies & nolans Batman movies are the only ones that exist to me.
Posted by ThanosIsADemocrat
The Garden
Member since May 2018
9395 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 2:06 am to
quote:

Bruce Wayne is Matthew Broderick


Val Kilmer is Matthew Broderick?
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
61351 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 3:13 am to

quote:

It's still incredible. Burton was like 29 years old when he made it and had only made PeeWee's Big Adventure beforehand.


He directed Beetlejuice before he did Batman. He was also a talented enough animator that Disney gave him an apprenticeship based of a short film he did in college.

quote:

After graduating from Burbank High School, Burton attended the California Institute of the Arts in Valencia, California, to study character animation. As a student at CalArts, Burton made the shorts Stalk of the Celery Monster and King and Octopus.

Stalk of the Celery Monster attracted the attention of Walt Disney Productions' animation division, which offered Burton an animator's apprenticeship at the studio. He worked as an animator, storyboard artist, graphic designer, art director and concept artist on films such as The Fox and the Hound (1981), Tron (1982), and The Black Cauldron (1985). His concept art never made it into the finished films.

While at Disney in 1982, Burton made his first short, Vincent, a six-minute black-and-white stop motion film based on a poem written by the filmmaker, and depicting a young boy who fantasizes that he is his hero Vincent Price, with Price himself providing narration. The film was produced by Rick Heinrichs, whom Burton had befriended while working in the concept art department at Disney. The film was shown at the Chicago Film Festival and released, alongside the teen drama Tex, for two weeks in one Los Angeles cinema. This was followed by Burton's first live-action production Hansel and Gretel, a Japanese-themed adaptation of the Brothers Grimm fairy tale for the Disney Channel, which climaxes in a kung fu fight between Hansel and Gretel and the witch.

Burton's next live-action short film, Frankenweenie, was released in 1984. It tells the story of a young boy who tries to revive his dog after it is run over by a car. Filmed in black-and-white, it stars Barret Oliver, Shelley Duvall (with whom he would work again in 1986, directing an episode of her Faerie Tale Theatre) and Daniel Stern. After Frankenweenie was completed, Disney fired Burton, under the pretext of him spending the company's resources on a film that would be too dark and scary for children to see.

Actor Paul Reubens saw Frankenweenie and chose Burton to direct the cinematic spin-off of his popular character Pee-wee Herman, stating on the Audio Commentary of 2000 DVD release of Pee-wee's Big Adventure that as soon as the short began, he was sold on Burton's style. Pee-wee Herman gained mainstream popularity with a successful stage show at The Groundlings and the Roxy which was later turned into an HBO special. The film, Pee-wee's Big Adventure, was made on a budget of $8 million and grossed more than $40 million at the North American box office.

After directing episodes for the revitalized version of '50s/'60s anthology horror series Alfred Hitchcock Presents and Shelley Duvall's Faerie Tale Theatre, Burton directed his next big project: Beetlejuice (1988), a supernatural comedy horror about a young couple forced to cope with life after death, and the family of pretentious yuppies who invade their treasured New England home. Their teenage daughter Lydia (Winona Ryder) has an obsession with death which allows her to see the deceased couple. Starring Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis, and featuring Michael Keaton as the obnoxious bio-exorcist Beetlejuice, the film grossed $80 million on a relatively low budget and won an Academy Award for Best Makeup.

Burton's ability to produce hits with low budgets impressed studio executives, and he received his first big budget film, Batman. The production was plagued with problems. Burton repeatedly clashed with the film's producers, Jon Peters and Peter Guber, but the most notable debacle involved casting. For the title role, Burton chose to cast Michael Keaton as Batman following their previous collaboration in Beetlejuice, despite Keaton's average physique, inexperience with action films, and reputation as a comic actor. Although Burton won in the end, the furor over the casting provoked enormous fan animosity, to the extent that Warner Brothers' share price slumped. Burton had considered it ridiculous to cast a "bulked-up" ultra-masculine man as Batman, insisting that Batman should be an ordinary man who dressed up in an elaborate bat costume to frighten criminals. Burton cast Jack Nicholson as The Joker (Tim Curry being his second choice) in a move that helped assuage fans' fears, as well as attracting older audiences not as interested in a superhero film.

When the film opened in June 1989, it was backed by the biggest marketing and merchandising campaign in film history at the time, and became one of the biggest box office hits of all time, grossing over US$250 million in the U.S. and $400 million worldwide (numbers not adjusted for inflation) and earning critical acclaim for the performances of both Keaton and Nicholson, as well as the film's production aspects, which won the Academy Award for Best Art Direction. The success of the film helped establish Burton as a profitable director, and it proved to be a huge influence on future superhero films, which eschewed the bright, all-American heroism of Richard Donner's Superman for a grimmer, more realistic look and characters with more psychological depth. It also became a major inspiration for the successful 1990s cartoon Batman: The Animated Series, in as much as the darkness of the picture and its sequel allowed for a darker Batman on television.

Burton claimed that the graphic novel Batman: The Killing Joke was a major influence on his film adaptation of Batman:

"I was never a giant comic book fan, but I've always loved the image of Batman and the Joker. The reason I've never been a comic book fan – and I think it started when I was a child – is because I could never tell which box I was supposed to read. I don't know if it was dyslexia or whatever, but that's why I loved The Killing Joke, because for the first time I could tell which one to read. It's my favorite. It's the first comic I've ever loved. And the success of those graphic novels made our ideas more acceptable."


LINK

On a sidenote, the producer Jon Peters who Burton clashed with on Batman? That's the guy who Kevin Smith is talking about when he was told to write the awful script for a Superman movie where he can't fly and fights a giant spider.
This post was edited on 5/28/20 at 3:15 am
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
113051 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 3:35 am to
If you want to go balls deep on Batman, watch Batman Begins and then watch Batman: The Animated Series.

Posted by beauchristopher
Member since Jan 2008
72896 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 3:48 am to
If he wants to go deeper than that, he should check out the TV show from the 60s.

I am watching it ATM, so this thread caught my attention.
Posted by KirkLazarus
Member since Aug 2017
3574 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 4:12 am to
quote:

Bruce Wayne is Matthew Broderick
quote:

Val Kilmer is Matthew Broderick?



I was real stoned when I typed that but I meant that

Edward Nygma is The Cable Guy.

Jim Carrey's character is clearly infatuated (in love with) Val Kilmer's Bruce Wayne, the first time they meet is funny shite.
Posted by SEClint
New Orleans, LA/Portland, OR
Member since Nov 2006
49484 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 4:16 am to
quote:

Bruce Wayne


.....Spoilers, for OP.
Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
51251 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 6:21 am to
The Nolan Dark Knight trilogy is exceptional. It is dark, brooding, with outstanding casting (aside from Maggie Gylenhall), acting, and storytelling. Heath Ledger gives a character portrayal for the ages. I recommend you watch them all straight through.

Batman and Batman Returns will have the trademark Tim Burton qualities: unique, captivating storytelling, quirkiness, and black comedy. These movies don’t take themselves as seriously as the Nolan movies. Michael Keaton is a good Batman, Jack Nicholson is great, and the rest of the casting is very good. Michelle Pfeiffer strikes a potent combination of craziness and seductiveness as Catwoman. The sets are stylish with a retro noir feel and a touch of carnival atmosphere. I recommend watching both back to back.

Batman Forever and Batman & Robin are Joel Schumacher films and are straight trash. They are littered with wasteful casting; good actors are wasted with hammed up, over the top performances and there is also a lot of other bad acting. Clooney is a terrible Batman while Val Kilmer is wasted. The dialogue is absolutely horrendous; it’s George Lucas prequel level. The sets are filled with neon, ridiculous and absurd features, lots of light and cheap effects. It’s like a grandiose Vegas hotel. Batman & Robin is to this day one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. I recommend you skip these and not waste your time.

The Zack Snyder movies are what they are: poor. They are the result of heavy handed direction with very little nuance and subtlety. Focusing on Batman alone, the movies do a decent job of portraying the superhero. The traditional story is there and homage is given to it, along with a bit of updated modernity. Affleck is a solid Batman: not great but not bad by any means. This portrayal of Batman is brutish; the fight scenes are like wrestling cage matches. The problem lies in the stories themselves; they are just flawed, scattered, and a mess. They lack focus and depth. And Eisenberg is so downright horrible as Lex Luther that he can almost ruin the movie by himself alone. He’s not on Jar Jar or Rose level but he’s close.
Posted by CP3forMVP
Member since Nov 2010
15800 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 6:57 am to
I watched the Ultimate Edition of BvS the other day and have to say I enjoyed it. There’s still things I didn’t like (Eisenberg, Martha) but the extra scenes really helped the movie flow better.
Posted by TFTTR
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2019
30 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 7:08 am to
You don’t need to watch these movies in total to keep up. They are independent of each other and different iterations of the character.

Batman and Batman Returns are actually more violent in some regards than the Nolan and Snyder films. The Burton films will always hold a high place for me because I grew up with them as an ‘80s kid, but in one major regard, they are problematic. Namely, Batman outright kills people in both of them, which goes against his core being. In one instance, he literally straps a bomb to a guy and smiles before throwing him in a hole to blow up. The other thing missing from these films is a real deep dive into Bruce Wayne and, while Michael Keaton is great, he was too old for an origin story that setup the Joker as the big bad just weeks into his career.

Batman Begins is great. The Dark Knight is great but suffers from the loss of Katie Holmes. The Dark Knight Rises is good, but the death of Heath Ledger really threw the plans out of whack. To not have any mention at all of the Joker was odd and the timeline as portrayed means that Bruce was Batman in that universe for maybe a year, year and a half, tops. That’s a huge issue for me.

Snyder movies were okay, but we get a Batman who is older in the vein of The Dark Knight Returns (Frank Miller graphic novel). Bottom line, he’s a killer. The change in his demeanor from BvS to Justice League is stark because of the transition to Joss Weadon.

My hope for The Batman is that they actually focus on Bruce being the world’s greatest detective.
Posted by finchmeister08
Member since Mar 2011
39808 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 7:12 am to
quote:

I’ve never seen any Batman movie


The only ones you should watch are:


Tim Burton's
Batman (1989)
Batman Returns (1992?)


Christopher Nolan's
Batman Begins (2005)
The Dark Knight (2008)
The Dark Knight Rises (2012)


Zack Snyder's
Man of Steel (Superman movie, but it's related to the next)
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Justice League


Animated Movies
Batman: Under the Red Hood (arguably the best animated Batman movie)
Batman: SubZero
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
Batman: Year One
The Dark Knight Returns Pt.1
The Dark Knight Returns Pt.2
The Killing Joke (not that great of a movie, but the graphic novel was great)
Batman: Hush (haven't seen it yet)

Batman: The Animated Series is a great watch as well.

Do not watch the Schumacher movies
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin
This post was edited on 5/28/20 at 7:19 am
Posted by Fewer Kilometers
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
37972 posts
Posted on 5/28/20 at 8:44 am to
Watch Nolan's first:
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises

That way you'll have seen The Dark Knight before you get burned out.

If you're still watching, go with:
Batman (1989)
Batman Returns

Still there?
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin

Pissed after Batman and Robin?
Need something nice?
Batman (1966)

If you're still watching:
Batman vs Superman
Justice League
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