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ESPN:Saints offer an instructive alternative approach.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 7:47 pm
Posted on 4/25/20 at 7:47 pm
Kevin Seifert
ESPN Staff Writer
Compare the Packers' approach to that of the New Orleans Saints, who have been treating each of the past few years as if it could be the last for quarterback Drew Brees. They identify specific players they believe can help them right away and aren't shy about moving around to get them. On Saturday, the Saints traded all of their Day 3 picks -- a total of four in all -- to move back into the third round to draft Dayton tight end Adam Trautman. (They eventually traded back into the seventh round to select Mississippi State quarterback Tommy Stevens.) The Saints' approach has translated into 37 regular-season wins since 2017 with three consecutive trips to the playoffs. I don't know if it will put them any closer to a Super Bowl championship than the Packers, but the Saints offer an instructive alternative approach.
LINK
ESPN Staff Writer
Compare the Packers' approach to that of the New Orleans Saints, who have been treating each of the past few years as if it could be the last for quarterback Drew Brees. They identify specific players they believe can help them right away and aren't shy about moving around to get them. On Saturday, the Saints traded all of their Day 3 picks -- a total of four in all -- to move back into the third round to draft Dayton tight end Adam Trautman. (They eventually traded back into the seventh round to select Mississippi State quarterback Tommy Stevens.) The Saints' approach has translated into 37 regular-season wins since 2017 with three consecutive trips to the playoffs. I don't know if it will put them any closer to a Super Bowl championship than the Packers, but the Saints offer an instructive alternative approach.
LINK
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Posted on 4/25/20 at 7:50 pm to thibodauxtiger
They really do it both ways. 18, 17, 15 were all draft years with lots of volume.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 7:56 pm to Vacherie Saint
We cut the majority or our picks from 18. Only ones that made the team were Davenport who we traded up for, Tre’Quan who isn’t very good, and Clapp who is awful. In 17 we had a lot of early picks so we didn’t really need to make a lot of trades but we did trade back in for Kamara in the 3rd. We didn’t have a pick in the 4th, 5th, or 7th. We cut our 6th round selection from that year. In 15, we whiffed on every pick except for Peat, PJ Williams, and Tyeler Davidson. This includes Stephon Anthony, Kikaha, Grayson, Tull, Swaan, and Marcus Murphy. Could argue that Marcus Murphy wasn’t a complete bust.
This post was edited on 4/25/20 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:12 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
They really do it both ways. 18, 17, 15 were all draft years with lots of volume.
It's not the fact that we NEVER draft "straight", but that we trade up more than any other team in the league to target players, as well as use picks to trade for players (did this more often in the early Payton years with guys like Vilma and Shockey, but have also done it recently with guys like Teddy and J. Jenkins).
We do specific player targeting more than any other team, while many teams are content to just wait or even trade back.
It has produced what I imagine is the fewest amount of picks in the league over that time, yet one of the highest hit rates in rounds 1-3, and in later rounds in which we traded up or in to target specific guys.
For us it works. Most teams (and fans) consider it blasphemous and have been saying for YEARS it'll catch up to us.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:18 pm to Mpd31
Yeah 2017 we had 5 or 6 picks in the top 100 or something like that. And that was because we traded players/future picks to get those picks.
2018 we lost every pick post round 3 minus Clapp (who I imagine is on his last legs here barring some magic jump).
2015. Man that was the rough year that caused the shakeup to get Ireland.
So those are all bad examples for one reason or another (2015 was a bad draft, 2017 had a bunch of high picks (as well as using a future pick to trade into the 3rd) which is super rare, and 2018 we lost most of those guys.
Edit:
If ANYTHING 2017 is an example of why you should trade current players/future picks to get guys you want.
2018 we lost every pick post round 3 minus Clapp (who I imagine is on his last legs here barring some magic jump).
2015. Man that was the rough year that caused the shakeup to get Ireland.
So those are all bad examples for one reason or another (2015 was a bad draft, 2017 had a bunch of high picks (as well as using a future pick to trade into the 3rd) which is super rare, and 2018 we lost most of those guys.
Edit:
If ANYTHING 2017 is an example of why you should trade current players/future picks to get guys you want.
This post was edited on 4/25/20 at 8:20 pm
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:20 pm to bonethug0180
We are only down a 3rd and a 6th next year and we will get comp picks. We typically cut our late rounds picks anyway with the one exception of Strief and Colston. We hit on a defensive tackle in the 5th every now and then. Clapp and Ellis are holding on to there roster spot by a thread. I don’t see how this backfires on us. What kills us is staying put and taking players like Stephone anthony and Stanley Jean Baptiste.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:26 pm to Mpd31
Pretty much every high round bust (Anthony, Kikaha, Baptiste, and Tennant) has resulted because we stayed put and used our actual pick for that round that year.
Of course that doesn't always hold, but we never drafted a high round bust when trading up, and have RARELY drafted a later round bust when doing so (way more often hitting on those).
Most of our late round flops have been picks we let come to us.
And the constant mention of the RARE exceptions of Colston and Strief from 2006 during Payton's first year when he was overturning the roster and we needed depth, is missing the point. Those players in the 7th are the super rare exception.
You wanna take 200 shots just to get 1 of those, or use those late picks to get guys we want who work out way more often?
Of course that doesn't always hold, but we never drafted a high round bust when trading up, and have RARELY drafted a later round bust when doing so (way more often hitting on those).
Most of our late round flops have been picks we let come to us.
And the constant mention of the RARE exceptions of Colston and Strief from 2006 during Payton's first year when he was overturning the roster and we needed depth, is missing the point. Those players in the 7th are the super rare exception.
You wanna take 200 shots just to get 1 of those, or use those late picks to get guys we want who work out way more often?
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:31 pm to bonethug0180
2017 was a once in a lifetime draft. That will never happen again.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:32 pm to Mpd31
quote:
one exception of Strief and Colston
Looks like two exceptions
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:34 pm to Mpd31
quote:
We are only down a 3rd and a 6th next year and we will get comp picks. We typically cut our late rounds picks anyway with the one exception of Strief and Colston. We hit on a defensive tackle in the 5th every now and then. Clapp and Ellis are holding on to there roster spot by a thread. I don’t see how this backfires on us. What kills us is staying put and taking players like Stephone anthony and Stanley Jean Baptiste.
and honestly... if we get the comp picks we expect to for the losses this offseason... you could say we theoretically aren't down any draft picks next year
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:35 pm to Elleshoe
Think he meant 1 year as the exception.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:36 pm to Elleshoe
quote:quote:
one exception of Strief and Colston
Looks like two exceptions
kinda unrelated but Pierre Thomas was a UDFA who beat out 4th round pick Antonio Pittman in the preseason for a spot on the Saints roster
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:42 pm to BigPerm30
I mean we had what 2 1sts, a 2nd, and 3 3rds in the top 100 when all was said and done, and came away with 5 starters (albeit 1 who keeps getting injured) and a solid backup.
That's what you should get with your early picks (maybe not quite to that level we got but in that range).
It wasn't really an extraordinary draft outside of actually having that many high picks and just nailing the evaluations.
2006 was the exceptional draft. Hit on 3(?) starters after the 3rd. That's super rare. That will never happen again.
We could recreate 2017 if we traded players and future picks to get 6 picks in rounds 1-3 (and nail our evaluations in the 1st 3 rounds as we usually do).
Have we had a bust in the top 3 rounds since we got Ireland? I know prior to a certain point we hadn't had a top 3 round bust until we took Tennant. All of those busts (4 or 5 players) from the 1st 3 rounds came in the same short period.
That's what you should get with your early picks (maybe not quite to that level we got but in that range).
It wasn't really an extraordinary draft outside of actually having that many high picks and just nailing the evaluations.
2006 was the exceptional draft. Hit on 3(?) starters after the 3rd. That's super rare. That will never happen again.
We could recreate 2017 if we traded players and future picks to get 6 picks in rounds 1-3 (and nail our evaluations in the 1st 3 rounds as we usually do).
Have we had a bust in the top 3 rounds since we got Ireland? I know prior to a certain point we hadn't had a top 3 round bust until we took Tennant. All of those busts (4 or 5 players) from the 1st 3 rounds came in the same short period.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 9:10 pm to rt3
Agreed, draft pick or UDFA the best man plays.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 9:17 pm to thibodauxtiger
this year was a good year to be able to do it, without pro days and private workouts, I feel like it was a more risky draft than usual. We'll see how it shakes out in a few years, but I like that they were completely sild on the 4 picks they made.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 9:46 pm to bonethug0180
Found this tidbit in a nola.com article. I don't think it includes picks used to get players, just times we traded up:
And then we proceeded to trade up 2 more times, making it 20 times in 14 years. It illustrates the point that while we don't ALWAYS trade up in drafts, we do do it with high frequency.
We have now traded up 10 times as often as we have traded back (only twice). Not to mention the "countless" picks we've used to acquire veterans (especially vs. the few times we've traded vets for picks).
quote:
Finally, the Cleveland Browns agreed to swap third-rounders at No. 74 and other selections so the Saints could trade up to get their guy for the 18th time in the past 14 years.
And then we proceeded to trade up 2 more times, making it 20 times in 14 years. It illustrates the point that while we don't ALWAYS trade up in drafts, we do do it with high frequency.
We have now traded up 10 times as often as we have traded back (only twice). Not to mention the "countless" picks we've used to acquire veterans (especially vs. the few times we've traded vets for picks).
Posted on 4/25/20 at 9:50 pm to Mpd31
quote:... terrible
Stephon Anthony, Kikaha, Grayson, Tull
Swann would have turned out pretty good if not for the concussion issues
Posted on 4/26/20 at 6:59 am to rt3
quote:
kinda unrelated but Pierre Thomas was a UDFA who beat out 4th round pick Antonio Pittman in the preseason for a spot on the Saints roster
I don't think I will ever be able to knock Pierre Thomas out of my top five all-time Saints players. That guy was so underrated. His lack of speed combined with just being a smart football player made him my favorite running back when it came to handling a screen pass. I still think we beat San Fran in 2011 if he doesn't get knocked out.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 7:33 am to JHE_11
quote:
I still think we beat San Fran in 2011 if he doesn't get knocked out.
Well yeah - that was 7 points right there if he doesn’t get knocked out.
Posted on 4/26/20 at 7:41 am to thibodauxtiger
quote:
ESPN:Saints offer an instructive alternative approach.
I agree with the take here.
However, it's only possible for strong teams that have stable and very talented rosters along with a coaching staff that knows how to develop talent.
The saints approach to the draft the last few years may work for them but it's not for everyone.
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