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For the morons on here that claim the House's role in impeachment is akin to a grand jury

Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:15 pm
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112730 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:15 pm
Here's where this doesn't even pass muster even if you are correct:

1) where the prosecutor is aware of substantial exculpatory evidence, it is DOJ POLICY that "...when a prosecutor conducting a grand jury inquiry is personally aware of substantial evidence that directly negates the guilt of a subject of the investigation, the prosecutor must present or otherwise disclose such evidence to the grand jury before seeking an indictment against such a person." LINK - NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE

2) the panel hears ALL questions and ALL answers - and is even allowed to ask questions to the witness directly - thus, the GOP members should be allowed to ask any and all questions that they wish (which appears to not be happening).

3) In the case of impeachment, the "grand jury" panel is THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES - not just the Democrats and not just the members of the HSCI. In this case, non-members are not allowed to hear the witnesses' testimony or view transcripts.

4) Speaking of that, the grand jury meets and considers the prosecution's presentation of the case as a body, in real time. It does not select a "small working group" to listen to everything and then count on them to tell them what happened later.

and,

5) there are serious sanctions for breaching the secrecy of a grand jury proceeding (FRCrimP Rule 6(e)(2)(B)). By all indications, Schiff is freely leaking information to the press about what he wants them to know was said. While I wish it were not so, the GOP members that are in there appear to be abiding by the rules against leaks.

So, not only are you wrong, but even if you are right in using the analogy, you are still a dumbass.

+++++++++++++++++++++

As an aside, it is comical that Schiff has repeatedly stated that no classified information is being presented or discussed during these interviews/deposition, yet they are taking place in the SCIF.
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
27590 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

Here's where this doesn't even pass muster even if you are correct:


If they are correct, then it DOES pass muster.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466946 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

If they are correct, then it DOES pass muster.

not if they're not treating this like an actual GJ, which is what OP is about
Posted by bamarep
Member since Nov 2013
52376 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:20 pm to
This has to be an act.


There's no way in God's earth you're naturally this fricking stupid.
Posted by The Maj
Member since Sep 2016
30543 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:20 pm to
I will be so glad when Trump wins his second term and puts fricks like you in a camp...
Posted by BlackHelicopterPilot
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
52841 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:20 pm to
analogy does not mean exact replica.


When people make the statement it is ANALOGOUS to...not EXACTLY THE SAME.

yeeeesh
Posted by RockyMtnTigerWDE
War Damn Eagle Dad!
Member since Oct 2010
108207 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:22 pm to
You’re not correct kid.

If you cared about America you and other Dem voters would condemn what is taking place. I predict that one day you will, when a GOP house returns the favor in the future.
This post was edited on 10/24/19 at 2:23 pm
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37072 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:24 pm to
We aren't in the "grand jury" phase yet. That will happen in front of the judiciary committee in a couple of weeks, all in public. These are just part of an investigation that a ton of Republican House members have access to.
Posted by arcalades
USA
Member since Feb 2014
19276 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

not if they're not treating this like an actual GJ, which is what OP is about


the dems not proceeding appropriately does not mean the HOR isn't the grand jury. It's not debatable that the HOR is the grand jury. It's a fact. The only thing the OP shows is that the Dems aren't follow proper protocol. However, the HOR doesn't have to follow exact statutes that apply to federal grand juries.
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
87652 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:25 pm to
We know it’s not an actual grand jury.

However, it’s a generalization. When explaining impeachment to people who don’t understand the process (shockingly, far too many), it’s just the simplest way to explain the process. Articles of Impeachment are similar to an indictment, and grand juries return indictments.
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
87652 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

We aren't in the "grand jury" phase yet. That will happen in front of the judiciary committee in a couple of weeks


Or so you hope, anyway.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112730 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:27 pm to
quote:

If they are correct, then it DOES pass muster.


The President of the United States is a citizen of the United States and is entitled to all of the due process rights afforded under the Constitution. Regardless of whether or not the "rules" or mechanisms for impeachment are set forth under Article I, or any other part of the Constitution, Congress is still subject to the due process requirements contained therein.

shite...fricking terrorists in Guantanamo and illegal aliens have due process rights. What is happening here is contrary to any meaning of due process provided for under the Constitution or the interpretive jurisprudence.
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
87652 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:30 pm to
quote:

The President of the United States is a citizen of the United States and is entitled to all of the due process rights afforded under the Constitution.


Hillary supposedly argued against this when she was part of the Watergate committee legal team. She allegedly argued Nixon was not entitled to legal counsel during evidentiary hearings. Shocking, I know.
This post was edited on 10/24/19 at 2:36 pm
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11530 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:35 pm to
We've been here before.

Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
48154 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

Hillary supposedly argued against this when she was part of the Watergate committee legal team. She allegedly argued Nixon was not entitled to legal counsel during evidentiary hearings


True dat - not supposedly - hell, the DEM chairman kicked her off the staff because of her constant lying.

HRC has always been a fan of authoritarian rule = tyranny (with her as the supreme pooh-bah.)
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
87652 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

True dat - not supposedly - hell, the DEM chairman kicked her off the staff because of her constant lying.


Now in fairness, THIS part isn’t true, but rather an urban legend.

But it’s pretty well established that she wanted to limit Nixon’s rights to due process during Watergate.
Posted by PhDoogan
Member since Sep 2018
14977 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:47 pm to
Posted by PhDoogan
Member since Sep 2018
14977 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

We've been here before.


Difference is that the Nixon inquiry was first opened by full house vote adopting a resolution referred to the HJC.
Posted by LSUROXS
Texas
Member since Sep 2006
8512 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:53 pm to
People often confuse a political investigation with a legal action.
Posted by DeathAndTaxes
Member since Oct 2019
238 posts
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:58 pm to
That isn’t accurate, the Senate established a select committee to investigate the Watergate break-in and cover up attempt a full year before the HJC got involved with impeachment proceedings.

Additionally, Archibald Cox was installed as special prosecutor in May of 1973. His request for White House tapes resulted in the Saturday Night Massacre. Impeachment proceedings didn’t officially begin until October 30th.

As they said, this is nothing new.
This post was edited on 10/24/19 at 3:06 pm
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