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Need advise on refinishing front doors

Posted on 3/19/19 at 4:38 pm
Posted by Black n Gold
Member since Feb 2009
15420 posts
Posted on 3/19/19 at 4:38 pm
Here is my tentative plan to refinish my front doors over the weekend. I could use some advise from you guys with experience, especially when it comes to purchasing the correct stain and varnish. FWIW, I have no experience doing this, and little experience staining and finishing wood in general.

1)Remove door in early morning and sand with 80/120/220, wiping with mineral spirits between each sanding
2)Stir and apply stain with soft cloth (see link below)
3)Wait 30 minutes, and wipe with clean soft cloth to ensure no lifting of stain
4)Let sit until late afternoon
5)Apply first coat of varnish and let sit overnight (see link below)
6)Apply second coat of varnish and let dry 4-6 hours
7)Light sand with 400 grit, followed by wipe of mineral spirits
8)Apply third coat of varnish and let dry 4-6 hours
9)Hang door and have beer


The stain and varnish I've linked are both oil based. The stain is even labeled "interior". Are these acceptable for use in this project, or are there other factors I need to consider? I guess it is worth noting that the varnish currently on the door has the crack and peel look to it. Also, what brush do you guys recommend I use when applying the varnish?

Minwax Wood Finish Dark Walnut Oil-based Interior Stain

Minwax Helmsman Semi-gloss Oil-based Spar Urethane Varnish

Should I just bite the bullet and pay someone?
Posted by jmon
Mandeville, LA
Member since Oct 2010
8459 posts
Posted on 3/19/19 at 4:53 pm to
Do it yourself and by no means wait till step 9 to have beer. What you do will be as good, if not longer lasting then what you would pay someone to do.

ETA: the higher the UV blocker the better. Look into marine grade protectants. What you have posted will require light sanding and touchups more frequently.
This post was edited on 3/19/19 at 4:55 pm
Posted by CGTigerfan
I'm on a boat
Member since Jan 2010
336 posts
Posted on 3/19/19 at 5:05 pm to
I do mine once a year. The first time, I took them off along with all of the hardware and did the same thing you described. I used 2 coats of MAN O'WAR Spar Varnish. It is a pretty strong coating, If your doors get a lot of sun, then i recommend you put a third coat, and just lightly sand and add another coat or 2 each year. I did not get a chance to do them last year, so they have to be taken down again this spring. My doors are made of Spanish Moss. Here is link to the varnish. Spar Varnish

The spar varnish is designed for direct sunlight. Being that it is for the spar of a sailing vessel which gets put through some pretty harsh conditions, I think it is one of the best varnishes out there to use. Hope this helps.
Posted by lsufanintexas
Member since Sep 2006
5011 posts
Posted on 3/19/19 at 5:08 pm to
I owned a door refinishing company across multiple cities and two states including having utility patents on a process and some specialized hardware. What do you want to know?
Posted by lsufanintexas
Member since Sep 2006
5011 posts
Posted on 3/19/19 at 5:20 pm to
Failure rates of man o war versus Minwax is about the same. We could never find a good formulation so I eventually had a chemical company create our own finish. Use oil based spar and stains. The key is the thickness of your topcoats. 3 wet mils minimum but I usually go thicker when spraying doors. Also best protection using satin. Glossy doesn’t protect as much.

Also you don’t need to wait over night. I got a ton of techniques that you can refinish a door in four hours and rehang which depending on which way your door faces will last anywhere from 1 to 3 years without having to refinish, just topcoat with tinted spar.
This post was edited on 3/19/19 at 5:23 pm
Posted by Black n Gold
Member since Feb 2009
15420 posts
Posted on 3/19/19 at 7:10 pm to
Is the stain I linked OK to use? Any brush specs I should look for to apply the varnish?
Posted by Woodman
Seattle WA
Member since Aug 2009
1950 posts
Posted on 3/19/19 at 7:33 pm to
First question: What sort of moisture exposure do your front doors get? If you see some sort of discoloration to the wood and / or difference of how the finish is wearing around the lower area [where the weather tends to have more impact], seriously consider using a marine varnish.

You are going to want to take all of the finish off if staining. Do you have a random orbit sander? Might be worth purchasing one. It doesn't leave any swirl marks and you will be much more proud of the outcome of your work.

What type of wood are your doors? Depending upon the wood, stains can have a tendency to blotch. If you are working with woods like Cherry, take the time to use a sanding sealer and maybe even some shellac between coast of stain before applying the varnish.

After you are absolutely positively certain the stain is where you want it to be, think about a coat or two of a spray varnish [if the humidity isn't horrible] before applying the finish.

There's a finish called a French polish which actually uses a combination of linseed oil, mineral spirits and [usually] shellac, but this has been advanced to using with marine varnish for an almost fault free method of applying your finish. Here's an article on how it works with boats. LINK /

Check out Fine Woodworking's articles on creating the pad to accomplish the same. It may take a few more coats going this way, but you'll be the star of the neighborhood with your results.

Cheers!
Posted by BasilFawlty
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2014
1164 posts
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:42 pm to
quote:

Is the stain I linked OK to use? 

No. Interior means interior. This (and using incorrect topcoat) is why this system fails.
There are exterior grade stains that will do a better job, but you need to be sure they can take a finish.
This post was edited on 3/19/19 at 8:49 pm
Posted by Black n Gold
Member since Feb 2009
15420 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 7:53 am to
quote:

There are exterior grade stains that will do a better job, but you need to be sure they can take a finish.


How would I do that. I noticed that a lot of the exterior stains are "stain and sealer". Should I be looking for only exterior stain?
Posted by Lou the Jew from LSU
Member since Oct 2006
4736 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 8:15 am to
I did this several times on a east facing door that the sun beat on.

30 min on leaving the stain might be long. The longer it is before wiping, the darker the stain and the less you see the grain.

Marine finish only, spar is an excellent idea.

Exterior stain is usually thicker and covers mire than penetrates, thin deck. Personally for a front door where viewing is a prime purpose, if use a good interior stain. The spar finish will protect it.

The sealer in the stain dries quickly, but don’t count that as a finish layer. Still cover with spar.

I liked denatured alcohol between spar layers after light sanding. Picks up dust and dried instantly. The roughing of the surface makes the layers of finish adhere better.

By the way, I had people walking in the neighborhood complement the front door all the time.
Posted by Black n Gold
Member since Feb 2009
15420 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 8:22 am to
quote:

30 min on leaving the stain might be long. The longer it is before wiping, the darker the stain and the less you see the grain.


Thanks for noting that.

So you believe the stain I plan on using is good, but that I should use a marine spar? Should I have any concern over the oil-based stain accepting the marine spar?
Posted by BasilFawlty
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2014
1164 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 1:49 pm to
quote:

How would I do that.

Do some homework. When I was in the paint biz (10+ years ago), the Woodscapes line by Sherwin could take a topcoat, and was a great product. I doubt if you could get a decent recommendation from Lowe's or HD. A legit paint store would be your best bet. Generally speaking, if the surface you are coating is free of wax, dirt, etc., and prepped it can be coated. An important thing to remember, and what I would tell clients, is that once you clear-coat an exterior surface, maintenance instantly becomes an issue
Posted by How I Roll
Paradise City
Member since Dec 2011
1785 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 5:02 pm to
I recently used gel stain and it is the greatest thing ever made. No runs, usually one coat and done. Minwax makes a variety of colors.

Also all minwax products can be used together so if the gel stain isn't shiny enough for your liking you could use and outdoor polyurethane or polycrylic with no problems.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 5:04 pm
Posted by drsung
Member since Aug 2004
197 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 5:35 pm to
Although I haven't tried it yet, this is what I will be using to refinish my doors.

LINK
Posted by BasilFawlty
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2014
1164 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 5:38 pm to
Just don't use Polycrylic outdoors
Posted by lsufanintexas
Member since Sep 2006
5011 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 7:15 pm to
If you want to waste money go ahead. That product is hard to apply, it’s pricey, and in our finish tests it only faired a little better.

I know this because I tested a bunch of different brand finishes and finish plus stain combos at an outdoor testing facility in Arizona. Each one will give you about the same level of protection depending on what elements the door is in.

Key is applying minimum amount of mills, make sure it’s an oil “spar”, and use satin or semi gloss. No offense to the other folks in here but most of the advice you’ll get from woodworkers and painters will have you going down rabbit holes, doing extra work, spending more money, etc.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 7:18 pm
Posted by OysterPoBoy
City of St. George
Member since Jul 2013
35700 posts
Posted on 3/20/19 at 8:00 pm to
quote:

let sit overnight


It’s not gonna bother you sleeping with no front door?
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