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re: Why would Pelosi visit any foreign country?

Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:15 pm to
Posted by The Maj
Member since Sep 2016
27407 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:15 pm to
quote:

Did she do so without any executive officials present?


Yes she did and she fricked up some dealings between Israel and Syria in the process... It did not include anyone from State...

Like I said, worthless...
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
27421 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

Yes she did and she fricked up some dealings between Israel and Syria in the process... It did not include anyone from State...

Like I said, worthless...

Well, then you and I are in agreement on that trip. Meetings of that nature should not happen without someone from State or the local embassy present.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
18157 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

Congress's authority is not derived from the Executive Branch,


Congress only has the authorities that are granted to it by the constitution and nothing more.

Guess what powers these are when it comes to dealing with foreign states?

1) To declare war upon a foreign state
2) Manage regulations of COMMERCE

Are you going to do the gymnastics required to justify these lavish trips under these 2 granted powers?
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73555 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:19 pm to
She sure does think she is co-president.

April 4 —Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, met here today with President Bashar al-Assad of Syria and discussed a variety of Middle Eastern issues, including the situations in Iraq and Lebanon and the prospect of peace talks between Syria and Israel.

Her visit has been criticized by President Bush and other administration officials, who have sought to isolate Syria diplomatically.

At a televised press conference after their meeting, Ms. Pelosi said that during the talks with Mr. Assad she had “expressed concern about Syria’s support for Hezbollah and Hamas,” and had “expressed our interest in using our good offices in promoting peace between Israel and Syria.”

Earlier this week, before reaching Syria, Ms. Pelosi met with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel. She said today that she passed on to President Assad word from Mr. Olmert that Israel sought peace with Syria.

“At the meeting with the president, I conveyed the message from Prime Minister Olmert that Israel is ready to restart negotiations as well as to talk peace,” Ms Pelosi told reporters, adding that President Assad responded positively.

Israel quickly issued a clarification of its message, posting a statement on Mr. Olmert’s website saying that its policy had not changed and that Syria must cease its sponsorship of terrorist organizations before negotiations could begin.

Ms. Pelosi is traveling with a high-level group of lawmakers, included Representatives Henry A. Waxman and Tom Lantos of California, Louise M. Slaughter of New York, Nick J. Rahall II of West Virginia and Keith Ellison of Minnesota, all Democrats, as well as David L. Hobson, Republican of Ohio.

Ms. Pelosi and her party arrived on Tuesday and met with Syrian officials including Walid al-Moallem, the foreign minister, and Faruq al-Shara, the vice president. She also toured the old section of the capital on Tuesday, visiting the centuries-old Ommayad Mosque and interacting with ordinary Syrians at the mosque and at a market.

LINK
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73555 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:20 pm to
quote:

You should also be VERY concerned that private entities are allowed to fund trips for congressional delegations on these trips as well...
That's how you get to Puerto Rico brah.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
27421 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

1) To declare war upon a foreign state
2) Manage regulations of COMMERCE



3) They fund EVERYTHING, and thereby conduct oversight.

quote:

Are you going to do the gymnastics required to justify these lavish trips under these 2 granted powers?


Nope. I find the lavishness deplorable. I just reject the notion that its impossible for a reasonable CODEL to have a legitimate purpose.
Posted by The Maj
Member since Sep 2016
27407 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

I just reject the notion that its impossible for a reasonable CODEL to have a legitimate purpose.


So, one of how many are legit?

I bet you believe bigfoot exists too...
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73555 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:24 pm to
Democrats were silent on Thursday as Tulsi Gabbard, one of the party’s sitting lawmakers in Congress, announced that she had met with Bashar al-Assad during a trip to war-torn Syria and dismissed his entire opposition as “terrorists”.

Gabbard, a Democratic congresswoman from Hawaii, disclosed her meeting with the Syrian president on Wednesday, during what her office called a “fact-finding” mission in the region.

emocratic leaders were mum on the decision by one of their sitting lawmakers to meet with a dictator whom the US government has dubbed a war criminal for his use of chemical weapons against civilians.

Gabbard’s trip raised alarms over a potential violation of the Logan Act, a federal statute barring unauthorized individuals from conferring with a foreign government involved in a dispute with the US. The US currently has no diplomatic relations with Syria.

Gabbard’s office said her visit was approved by the House ethics committee. A spokesman for the committee declined to comment
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
27421 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:26 pm to
quote:

So, one of how many are legit?


I admitted to not fully appreciating the number of trips that have occurred. You are right on that front. So obviously I have no clue how many I would consider legitimate.

But I still maintain that declaring that Congress has no potential business, ever, to conduct overseas to be erroneous. It is possible to hold that belief while simultaneously believing that the trips have been abused.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
18157 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:26 pm to
quote:

3) They fund EVERYTHING, and thereby conduct oversight.


Geezus....when it comes to foreign aid, all congress can do is appropriate funds to the state department....you know, the office of the executive branch whose responsibility is to deal with foreign states (guess who heads the executive branch?)

Congress can't do anything unilaterally. That isn't how checks and balances work. Foreign policy is clearly under the Executive branch BUT with approval from congress as per checks and balances.

EDIT: so again, congress has no business going over seas. Their responsibility is to the american people and it is up to the executive branch to CONVINCE congress to fund something. If the argument isn't convincing, then congress has the responsibility to AMERICANS to deny it.
This post was edited on 1/18/19 at 12:29 pm
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
27421 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:28 pm to
quote:

Geezus....when it comes to foreign aid, all congress can do is appropriate funds to the state department....you know, the office of the executive branch whose responsibility is to deal with foreign states (guess who heads the executive branch?)

Congress can't do anything unilaterally. That isn't how checks and balances work. Foreign policy is clearly under the Executive branch BUT with approval from congress as per checks and balances.




You don't understand what the "independent" in independent oversight means. They are going to verify that the appropriations are going where they intend for them to go, and are going to oversee all the programs funding by those appropriations.

In doing so, they are not, and SHOULD NOT, rely solely on the Executive Branch and its representations. Congressional approval is not intended to be a rubber stamp, nor are they only intended to approve or deny Executive Branch requests. They are fully within their power to oversee, reach independent conclusions, and independently fact-find.
This post was edited on 1/18/19 at 12:32 pm
Posted by oleheat
Sportsman's Paradise
Member since Mar 2007
13600 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:30 pm to
quote:

Tulsi Gabbard


quote:

Democratic leaders were mum on the decision by one of their sitting lawmakers to meet with a dictator whom the US government has dubbed a war criminal for his use of chemical weapons against civilians.


And she's running for their presidential nomination in 2020.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
18157 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

You don't understand what the "independent" in independent oversight means. They are going to verify that the appropriations are going where they intend for them to go, and are going to oversee all the programs funding by those appropriations.

In doing so, they are not, and SHOULD NOT, rely solely on the Executive Branch and its representations.


You seem to have the misunderstanding that oversight means exclusive control. That isn't how this works. That isn't how any of this works.
Posted by The Maj
Member since Sep 2016
27407 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

Congress has no potential business, ever, to conduct overseas to be erroneous


Where did I say "ever"? They should not be able to pick and choose where they go and when they go... It all should be coordinated through State or POTUS or requested by State or POTUS...

McCain traveling to Syria when Obama was POTUS was just as wrong and should not have happened...

Most of the information that is required for congress to do their jobs can be obtained through written reports and briefings... None of those require them to go overseas... I will agree, on rare occasions, some committee members might need to see something on the ground overseas but that is a very rare instance...
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73555 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

And she's running for their presidential nomination in 2020.

She loved her some dictators, I am sure she will be evolving.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
27421 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

You seem to have the misunderstanding that oversight means exclusive control. That isn't how this works. That isn't how any of this works.


I don't think the words "exclusive control" have been used in this entire thread. You apparently are incapable of understanding that Congress is not, has never, and never will simply make decisions based solely on what the Executive Branch represents.
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

Just because they have abandoned their Constitutional duties in the interests of the MIC and perpetual reelection doesn't mean that we should encourage them to continue doing so. Every single one of the outstanding AUMF's needs to be rescinded by Congress, and the authority over military action needs to be reigned back in.

Anyone considering themselves a strict Constitutionalist should agree with the above statement.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
27421 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

Where did I say "ever"?


You didn't, but OP has, and so have several others. Thats who i was addressing originally.

quote:

It all should be coordinated through State or POTUS or requested by State or POTUS...


Coordinated through State, absolutely agree. Requiring a request from POTUS before going is where you lose me.

quote:

I will agree, on rare occasions, some committee members might need to see something on the ground overseas but that is a very rare instance...


Agreed. I also think that there are a lot of potential circumstances involving trade, financial services, or other complex issues that are best handled/negotiated in person over a length of time. A meeting with foreign officials or legislators for purposes of that nature doesn't seem improper to me either.

But in general I agree that there isn't much of a need for CODELS to go around visiting troops.
Posted by The Maj
Member since Sep 2016
27407 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

Requiring a request from POTUS before going is where you lose me.


You routinely miss the "or" in your reading... You do realize there are instances where POTUS could request a CODEL visit somewhere or some foreign dignitary, right?

However, congress members should not be willy nilly attempting to justify trips overseas for any damn reason without there being a valid need... I honestly cannot think of a single reason the Speaker should travel oversees given that he/ she has people assigned to committees for oversight of such matters...
Posted by Strannix
District 11
Member since Dec 2012
49163 posts
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:52 pm to
Wouldn't it be easier to fly a diplomat in than fly congress out to them?
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