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Started By
Message
Veterans: How much use does a military pistol actually get in deployment?
Posted on 12/15/18 at 8:45 am
Posted on 12/15/18 at 8:45 am
How much have we heard about the pistol contracts recently?
Non-Military here, so wanting vets opinion on this.
I can see how important they could be during peace time or military police action.
But what about you Afghan/Iraq vets that were carrying your rifle all day?
Did you carry your pistol?
Did you ever have to draw it?
Did you have to fire it?
Why?
Did you have to draw it because your primary weapon failed?
Did you have to draw it because your assailant was too close for rifle?
Could you give a percentage of how many combatants were actually shot with a pistol?
Seems to me, that the lightweight m4 eliminates the need for a side arm and you could carry more mags instead of toting a 2 lb pistol and it other 2-3 mags.
Non-Military here, so wanting vets opinion on this.
I can see how important they could be during peace time or military police action.
But what about you Afghan/Iraq vets that were carrying your rifle all day?
Did you carry your pistol?
Did you ever have to draw it?
Did you have to fire it?
Why?
Did you have to draw it because your primary weapon failed?
Did you have to draw it because your assailant was too close for rifle?
Could you give a percentage of how many combatants were actually shot with a pistol?
Seems to me, that the lightweight m4 eliminates the need for a side arm and you could carry more mags instead of toting a 2 lb pistol and it other 2-3 mags.
This post was edited on 12/15/18 at 8:52 am
19
Posted on 12/15/18 at 9:04 am to dstone12
While I agree with the majority of your post, the main purpose of a sidearm is as a backup when your main weapon fails. While a pistol is by no means a substitute for a battle rifle, it’s purpose is to allow you to fight your way to another rifle. Also, the size and easy manipulation of a pistol can be a life saver during hand to hand combat.
Posted on 12/15/18 at 9:26 am to dstone12
The pistol is an impractical combat weapon. There is arguably no use for it on the battlefield. If you are carrying an m16 or m4, you absolutely don’t need a pistol. Only effective at short ranges and highly inaccurate. Plus there is zero need to conceal weapons in the military.
Marine infantry here with 2 combat tours in Iraq ‘04 and ‘05. Sgt when I got out and I’ve never even touched a pistol.
Marine infantry here with 2 combat tours in Iraq ‘04 and ‘05. Sgt when I got out and I’ve never even touched a pistol.
Posted on 12/15/18 at 9:43 am to dstone12
8 year Army Vet - Commissioned officers and Warrant Officers normally carried sidearms. Most shooting they see is typically at the range. I can honestly say that I never had a pistol malfunction , FF etc while qualifying at the range ;) All other answers are classified...
Posted on 12/15/18 at 9:51 am to dstone12
There's a historical, traditional aspect to issuing officers and NCO's a personal weapon. Way back when it was a sword. In terms of modern combat for frontline troops it's not practical or useful unless you are SOF, the Marine Corps is phasing out handguns for M4's for all enlisted ranks and officers below O-5. I still think handgun training is important and should be taught as a part of marksmanship training regardless of whether or not one would be issued. US Army, 20+ years here.
Posted on 12/15/18 at 11:18 am to dstone12
I spent 14 months in Iraq, and saw combat on a fairly regular basis. The only time I ever fired a sidearm was at the range.
Posted on 12/15/18 at 11:25 am to dstone12
Never.
Posted on 12/15/18 at 1:13 pm to dstone12
its like a knife, its there as a last ditch backup weapon, nothing more
Posted on 12/15/18 at 6:39 pm to dstone12
My brother in law spent 25 years in the infantry and was deployed several times.
Never carried a pistol, just his m16 or m4. His reason is that ounces lead to pounds and they already have enough shite to carry.
Never carried a pistol, just his m16 or m4. His reason is that ounces lead to pounds and they already have enough shite to carry.
Posted on 12/15/18 at 7:26 pm to dstone12
Afghanistan and Iraq here.
As an initial matter, yes, a long gun is always, always preferred.
That said, there were multiple situations every day when I was glad to have a sidearm. For example, you don’t spend all day kitted up and the vast majority of folks work in a toc or motorpool where they don’t carry rifles all day.
Secondly, I cannot count the number of meetings that I would attend with local nationals which were semi-formal, damn glad to have a handgun for those situations as otherwise you’re left with a pocket knife or trying to beat someone to death with a chai pot until someone with a gun gets there. With the number of green on blue, especially in the last few years, I am far more worried about getting popped inside the wire than I am outside - same exact rationale why we all conceal carry here.
Lastly, it is far easier to manipulate a handgun in a vehicle with body armor, radios and the rest of the shite on. You could also run a radio with one hand and fire with one hand if need be, of course this is a bad scenario if you’re doing that, but it’s an option.
As an initial matter, yes, a long gun is always, always preferred.
That said, there were multiple situations every day when I was glad to have a sidearm. For example, you don’t spend all day kitted up and the vast majority of folks work in a toc or motorpool where they don’t carry rifles all day.
Secondly, I cannot count the number of meetings that I would attend with local nationals which were semi-formal, damn glad to have a handgun for those situations as otherwise you’re left with a pocket knife or trying to beat someone to death with a chai pot until someone with a gun gets there. With the number of green on blue, especially in the last few years, I am far more worried about getting popped inside the wire than I am outside - same exact rationale why we all conceal carry here.
Lastly, it is far easier to manipulate a handgun in a vehicle with body armor, radios and the rest of the shite on. You could also run a radio with one hand and fire with one hand if need be, of course this is a bad scenario if you’re doing that, but it’s an option.
Posted on 12/15/18 at 9:08 pm to dstone12
Never
Posted on 12/15/18 at 11:18 pm to dstone12
Infantry marine machine gunner. Carried one on a couple of patrols as a backup to my 240. Running around in a firefight I realized it was a pain in the arse flipping on my hip and putting it on my chest fricked up my prone. Ended up leaving it inside my pack the entire deployment. Never was issued one on my next 2 deployments.
If you or someone else is using a pistol shite has hit the fan. Just like fixing bayonets.
If you or someone else is using a pistol shite has hit the fan. Just like fixing bayonets.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 2:44 am to dstone12
quote:
How much use does a military pistol actually get in deployment?
It's extremely rare that a pistol would be used in combat.
Normally, a pistol sees a couple of thousand rounds a year at the range (including both quals and drills.)
A pistol is better suited for defense, but in CQB, it's quicker to transition to your sidearm than it is to perform remedial action on your primary weapon.
ETA: If you have to draw your sidearm in a tactical situation, you and your team are probably having a very bad day!
This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 2:47 am
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:21 am to dstone12
Sgt York used it.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:19 am to dstone12
Could you give a percentage of how many combatants were actually shot with a pistol?
2 tours and I knew of only one. A detainee slipped his zip cuffs charged a guy they went to the ground. SM got to his pistol and put one in his ear.
2 tours and I knew of only one. A detainee slipped his zip cuffs charged a guy they went to the ground. SM got to his pistol and put one in his ear.
This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 11:21 am
Posted on 12/16/18 at 8:36 pm to dstone12
It all depends on your MOS. As a corpsman in the Nam I was issued a Colt 45 and when they asked me if I wanted a weapon I said Hell yeah, give me an M-16. There's this thing called fire superiority. That 45 is for special occasions. I fired the 16 at the bad guys a few times but never the pistol. Unfortunately one of my marines accidentally killed his bunker mate while cleaning his damn pistol. Our FO (forward observer) used his pistol for a kill, but then again, it was a special occasion and FOs are carrying a radio and binoculars. I used the M-16 as a disguise although the Unit One (medical bag) probably gave me away. I was I loved my Colt but felt like I was naked without the 16.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 8:41 pm to dstone12
A deployment of mine was just watching third country nationals and local nationals that came on the base to do jobs fill sandbags, help build new long term shelters etc.
In those situations we carried M-16 and M-9. It was important for us though as we are in the middle of sleeping quarters. If we had to use our weapons M-9 having less velocity is better than M-16 considering what's on the other side of our targets
In those situations we carried M-16 and M-9. It was important for us though as we are in the middle of sleeping quarters. If we had to use our weapons M-9 having less velocity is better than M-16 considering what's on the other side of our targets
This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 8:43 pm
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:06 pm to dstone12
I have two stories shared by my father and a platoon member who shared with me at a reunion that my father hosted at his home after his retirement. Both were how his sidearm saved his life. In WWII he survived the Iwo Jima landing and he was guarding his buddy while sleeping in a naval shell hole with his .45 in his hand. One night a shell exploded and illuminated a Japanese soldier attempting to bayonet his buddy. My father shot the Japanese with his pistol and saved his buddy and himself. He was discharged by the Marines and went to school and got his commission in the Army prior to Korea. In Korea on July 31, 1950 his company was overrun by the North Koreans and he was wounded through the thigh with a Burp Gun. He was of one of six out of the entire rifle company to survive the attack. He was able to get down the hill with his .45 in stomach of a South Korean who spoke to the North Koreans on the way down the hill.
This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 12/20/18 at 10:03 am to dstone12
Veteran pistol carrier checking in. The Colt .45 was my primary weapon in the Army. It was because my MOS required me to carry around a tripod and a surveying transit (scope looking thing). So I couldn't carry a rifle and all of that shite with me at the same time.
And the colt was a beautiful pistol and a massive pile of shite. It was so old that it couldn't shoot straight. I was scared to death that they wouldn't give me an M16 if the shite ever hit the fan. Because if it did hit the fan I was better off throwing my pistol at the enemy. Our pistols were old and worn out. They were so worn out that at the end of my tenure we moved to the Beretta which was a fine piece of weaponry.
And the colt was a beautiful pistol and a massive pile of shite. It was so old that it couldn't shoot straight. I was scared to death that they wouldn't give me an M16 if the shite ever hit the fan. Because if it did hit the fan I was better off throwing my pistol at the enemy. Our pistols were old and worn out. They were so worn out that at the end of my tenure we moved to the Beretta which was a fine piece of weaponry.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 1:21 pm to dstone12
I was an 0331 with a rifle company during my first deployment and then a weapons company during my second and was stuck with an M9 on my thigh. Never drew it outside the wire and never fired it overseas.
I'd estimate very little combatants were shot with a pistol.
I'd estimate very little combatants were shot with a pistol.
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