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Message
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:16 am to RogerTheShrubber
So the answer is to just accept the fact we get screwed?
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:21 am to udtiger
quote:
If they don't, this is possibly the dumbest thing a country could do.
Yeah, it will just increase their energy cost, but those Chinese industries will be subsidized further on the back end. So the net effect will be zero.
The overarching factor in the LNG market is energy demand which is the overall global economy. In this situation tariffs might price the U.S. out of competition from other counties like Australia or Qatar. However the market is growing as more LNG terminals are being built so the U.S. producers will easily find other markets.
And ironically if U.S. producers have trouble finding other markets besides China, that means cheaper natural gas prices for U.S. consumers.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:23 am to I B Freeman
quote:
Chinese put tariffs on LNG
This should decrease natural gas prices for U.S. consumers.
Good news.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:28 am to tigersnipen
quote:
just accept the fact we get screwed?
We aren't getting screwed.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:32 am to tigersnipen
quote:
So the answer is to just accept the fact we get screwed?
Of all of the responses from idiots this morning this one is the crux of all that I would like an explanation for.
Please explain to me just how it is we are getting screwed?
Are there less jobs in America today because we trade with China? No
Has the US GDP or GNP shrank since we started trading with China? No.
Do we benefit as a whole economy because a country sells us goods cheaper than we can make them ourselves? Absolutely and that has been true for eternity.
Now explain to me just what real harm it is that actually exists---not what you have contrived in your mind but real harm.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:32 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
We aren't getting screwed.
I bet a lot of manufacturers would disagree.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:43 am to trinidadtiger
Yes let's get our facts straight--Besides Canada and Mexico that get LNG from us via pipeline very few of our LNG customers are larger than China
We exported in May 94,797 million cubic feet of LNG. China took 10.9% of it. No EU country took any significant quantity.
LINK
Yes it is foolish of China to tariff LNG just as it is foolish of the US to tariff their products.
Trade wars are foolish. There are no winners. NONE. ZIP. ZERO.
Trump needs to quit listening to the neocon John Bolton and should simply drop ALL tariffs and the let the other countries do as they wish. Let them continue to tariff us if they want too. It is a stupid policy to have tariffs. It is a stupid policy to subsidize industries like we do agriculture and the Chinese do aluminum but there will always be stupidity. We should stop playing tit for tat with these countries and simply declare ourselves a free trade country.
We exported in May 94,797 million cubic feet of LNG. China took 10.9% of it. No EU country took any significant quantity.
LINK
Yes it is foolish of China to tariff LNG just as it is foolish of the US to tariff their products.
Trade wars are foolish. There are no winners. NONE. ZIP. ZERO.
Trump needs to quit listening to the neocon John Bolton and should simply drop ALL tariffs and the let the other countries do as they wish. Let them continue to tariff us if they want too. It is a stupid policy to have tariffs. It is a stupid policy to subsidize industries like we do agriculture and the Chinese do aluminum but there will always be stupidity. We should stop playing tit for tat with these countries and simply declare ourselves a free trade country.
This post was edited on 8/6/18 at 8:46 am
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:44 am to Lg
quote:
I bet a lot of manufacturers would disagree.
A LOT more hate the tariffs.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:45 am to I B Freeman
quote:Brilliant!
and the let the other countries do as they wish
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:47 am to Jbird
It is brilliant.
Think of the resources they are taking from the rest of their citizens to subsidize a few industries?
Think of the resources they are taking from the rest of their citizens to subsidize a few industries?
This post was edited on 8/6/18 at 8:48 am
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:48 am to I B Freeman
quote:quote:
I bet a lot of manufacturers would disagree.
A LOT more hate the tariffs.
U.S. manufactures will like these Chinese tariffs on U.S. LNG. That potentially means higher U.S. supply and thus lower energy cost for U.S. manufactures, thus lower cost to U.S. consumers.
This will be really helpful for fertilizer companies and downstream users of fertilizer (farmers). (Natural gas is the base component of fertilizer manufacturing).
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:48 am to I B Freeman
quote:
Trump needs to quit listening to the neocon John Bolton and should simply drop ALL tariffs and the let the other countries do as they wish. Let them continue to tariff us if they want too. It is a stupid policy to have tariffs. It is a stupid policy to subsidize industries like we do agriculture and the Chinese do aluminum but there will always be stupidity. We should stop playing tit for tat with these countries and simply declare ourselves a free trade country.
I've seen a lot of horseshite in my life, but this has to be the biggest pile of paid shill horseshite I have ever seen.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:49 am to I B Freeman
quote:
Think of the resources they are taking from the rest of their citizens to subsidize a few industries?
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:49 am to GumboPot
Twist it how you wish Gumbo. US manufacturers like cheap aluminum from China too.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:50 am to I B Freeman
quote:So.
US manufacturers like cheap aluminum from China too.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:50 am to dr smartass phd
Ok smartass refute any of it you think you can.
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:56 am to I B Freeman
quote:
Tariffs Are A Clear and Present Danger To The U.S. Economy
Wayne Winegarden
The business guru Peter Drucker is credited with the notion that “if you can’t measure something you can’t manage it”. Using this logic in reverse, perhaps the best way to thwart the misplaced attempts to manage global economic trade is to stop measuring it.
After all, when was the last time people worried about trade deficits between the 50 states? Undoubtedly, Iowa sells more agricultural goods to New York than New York sells to Iowa. And, New York probably sells more financial services to Iowa than Iowa sells to New York. Yet no one worries about these trade flows. Perhaps Iowa has a trade deficit with New York; perhaps it is the other way around. Who cares?
Yet, when the discussion turns from trade flows between individual states to trade flows between countries, all sorts of nonsensical theories arise. For instance, anti-trade factions falsely blame global trade on job losses in the U.S.; or, they claim that the U.S. trade deficit is a sign that we are not benefiting from global trade. There is simply no merit to these theories.
Tariffs have never, on net, saved jobs in any country that has imposed them. Similarly, eliminating the U.S. trade deficit, per se, will not create any net benefits to the U.S. economy.
While there is no net economic benefit from the tariffs, the tariffs are another body blow to the global trading system that has fueled U.S. prosperity for more than 70 years. And, while the opportunities created by the global trading system are often couched in terms of exports, this is only part of the story.
Imports improve the quality and quantity of goods and services we Americans consume on a regular basis – often providing us with these goods and services at more affordable prices. This means that U.S. families are better off when imports are increasing, not worse off.
The focus on exports also distracts from another important part of the global trading system – investment. For starters, foreign investment into the U.S. economy has created millions of jobs. According to a 2016 study by the International Trade Administration, over 12 million U.S. jobs in 2013 (8.5 percent of the labor force) existed because foreigners were investing in the U.S. economy.
Just as importantly, these investments increase our productivity and make the U.S. economy more competitive globally. Increasing the productivity of the U.S. economy is essential for increasing the economy’s growth rate and for revitalizing the growth in the average family’s income. Consequently, the net worth of American families grows faster when the U.S. engages with the global trading system, and grows slower when their access to the global trading system is arbitrarily denied.
Undoubtedly, the global trading system is rife with many trade impediments that must be managed, such as China’s theft of intellectual property. But, creating more trade impediments is not the answer to these problems.
This is particularly true for the tariffs that the Administration has imposed, which are on our closest trading partners who are playing by the rules. These countries, despite the rhetoric, impose tariff rates on U.S. exports that are similar to the tariffs that the U.S. imposes on their exports. Therefore, overall, there is already parity in tariff rates across these countries.
Of course, tariff parity should not be the goal because when the U.S. levies tariffs, the government is raising taxes on U.S. consumers and businesses. As with any tax increase, it is domestic citizens that bear these costs.
Businesses bear the costs of tariffs through higher production costs. These higher costs dis-incent businesses from hiring more workers or expanding production in the U.S. Instead of creating jobs, tariffs drive them offshore, along with the capital and investment that goes with them.
Tariffs harm families by raising the costs for all types of goods and services. As a result, families will have to spend more of their hard-earned money on the now higher priced goods, such as automobiles and food, and will have less disposable income to spend on other priorities.
Therefore, the tariffs that the Trump Administration is implementing are counter-productive – they attempt to punish countries for actions they have not taken by imposing higher costs on Americans.
Instead of pursing this economically destructive policy, the Administration should lead by example and reduce (or eliminate) all currently imposed tariffs. Such an approach would help families’ budgets, improve business productivity, strengthen the job market, and exhibit global leadership that would help expand the benefits from global trade.
I am a Sr. Fellow in Business and Economics at the Pacific Research Institute and the Principal of Capitol Economic Advisors. My research explores the connection between macroeconomic policies and economic outcomes, with a focus on the health care and energy industries.
This post was edited on 8/6/18 at 8:57 am
Posted on 8/6/18 at 8:57 am to I B Freeman
quote:
I B Freeman
You know, being wrong about a situation, isn't the end of the world. And actually, fessing up to when you are incorrect, is noble.
However, doubling down on stupid day after day, because you are so angry over being proved wrong minutes after your posts, is just insanity.
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