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Soldiers Hate the M4 and M16. The Pentagon Is Finally Doing Something about It.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:25 pm
Is this really true? I've never heard of soldiers recently complaining about this platform. Sounds like the MIC is looking for $$$ for another boondoggle.
Yahoo
quote:
For decades, troops have been complaining about the limitations of the M16 rifle and M4 carbine, both of which are hindered by the same flawed operating system that makes the weapons jam easily. But after years of ignoring small arms in favor of expensive aircraft and warships, the Pentagon is taking a long, hard look at how to give the Army 11 Bang Bangs and Marine grunts a better weapon
Yahoo
31
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:26 pm to upgrayedd
This has been going on for years. I loved my m16 bc we spent so much quality time together. Faults and all.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:27 pm to upgrayedd
The M14 is a hell of a rifle.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:27 pm to upgrayedd
quote:Marines have already demanded a VTOL rifle
Sounds like the MIC is looking for $$$ for another boondoggle.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:28 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Soldiers Hate the M4 and M16. The Pentagon Is Finally Doing Something about It.
I know a few infantry guys who saw combat. They hated the round. Despite the media making it sound like the .223 round was extremely powerful, there are reports of soldiers shooting guys 3 and 4 times and watching them run away.
I had heard the reason we switched to the .223/5.56 in Vietnam was so that we wouldn't kill many enemy combatants. If we wounded them, then it would take 1-2 others to carry him out.
Before I lost mine in the boating accident, I use to enjoy the glorified .22 cal.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:29 pm to upgrayedd
Mine never malfunctioned in combat 
In fact, I can think of very few malfunctions I’ve had with the weapon even in training. And most of those have been from faulty magazines.
I would add that the average engagement distances in Afghanistan have been 300 meters or more so a more powerful round could be useful. But then you run into the problem of weight.
In fact, I can think of very few malfunctions I’ve had with the weapon even in training. And most of those have been from faulty magazines.
I would add that the average engagement distances in Afghanistan have been 300 meters or more so a more powerful round could be useful. But then you run into the problem of weight.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:29 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Is this really true
Yes
It's been an ongoing complaint from the combat arms folks
They're outgunned in terms of stopping power
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:31 pm to upgrayedd
Just give them all AR-15s. The media tells me it’s the most efficient means of killing people ever created. 
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:31 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Is this really true?
No.
Give me the option to swap to a 300 Blackout when I need it and call it good.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:32 pm to upgrayedd
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 5.56 in CQB style engagements all the way out to 250m as long you are using the proper Ammo. It can be very effective in the hands of a trained marksman. The Marine Corps just bought a bunch of M27 iar made by Hk which is a piston driven weapon rather than a direct impengment style like the original Stoner design. The piston runs cleaner and cooler when shooting suppressed and is a hell of a weapon (Hk416 variant).
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:38 pm to upgrayedd
5.56 is a great round. .224 Valkyrie is very interesting though
This post was edited on 3/5/18 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:46 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
both of which are hindered by the same flawed operating system that makes the weapons jam easily.
There is nothing wrong with DI guns.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:51 pm to upgrayedd
I loved my M4. It is an awesome weapon in urban warfare.
I could see where the boys in Afghanistan would want something with a little more power at distance, but I wouldn't trade it for anything on the market in close quarters. To me, it was telling that whenever I worked with guys who had the option to use something else because Uncle Sam would pay for anything their hearts desired, they still opted for the M4 more often than not.
I could see where the boys in Afghanistan would want something with a little more power at distance, but I wouldn't trade it for anything on the market in close quarters. To me, it was telling that whenever I worked with guys who had the option to use something else because Uncle Sam would pay for anything their hearts desired, they still opted for the M4 more often than not.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:56 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Soldiers Hate the M4 and M16.
quote:
Is this really true?
Headline seems pretty hyperbolic.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:57 pm to upgrayedd
I loved my M16 my M21 my M4 and all of my M&Ms.
A soldier's mission is not to wonder why, a soldier's mission is to do or die.
It was usually the pussy-arse jar heads who complained and always wanted their precious M14s back because of the whole 7.62 thingy.
Listen, we need a longer range harder hitting lighter platform in Afghanistan. That's what this all boils-down-to.
Jarheads are gonna bitch about how much heavier 210 rounds of 6.8 or 6.5 is to hump compared to 5.56 ... because that's what jarheads do, they bitch and moan and gripe. They're like women, you can never make them happy.
A soldier's mission is not to wonder why, a soldier's mission is to do or die.
It was usually the pussy-arse jar heads who complained and always wanted their precious M14s back because of the whole 7.62 thingy.
Listen, we need a longer range harder hitting lighter platform in Afghanistan. That's what this all boils-down-to.
Jarheads are gonna bitch about how much heavier 210 rounds of 6.8 or 6.5 is to hump compared to 5.56 ... because that's what jarheads do, they bitch and moan and gripe. They're like women, you can never make them happy.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 5:59 pm to upgrayedd
(Sigh)
So, the M16/M4 is inadequate?
Maybe if we start calling AR platforms M4's then libs head will fricking explode.......
I loved my M16A2 while on active duty, and I love my AR now.....
Did somebody ask Yahoo if they know the difference, besides a selector switch to 3 round auto bursts and the option in civilian life between a 1/7 or 1/9 twist rate?
The report is old old news by the way....the bitching about the M16 platform has gone on for many years.... Fact is, if you take care of it, it will take care of you in battle.
So, the M16/M4 is inadequate?
Maybe if we start calling AR platforms M4's then libs head will fricking explode.......
I loved my M16A2 while on active duty, and I love my AR now.....
Did somebody ask Yahoo if they know the difference, besides a selector switch to 3 round auto bursts and the option in civilian life between a 1/7 or 1/9 twist rate?
The report is old old news by the way....the bitching about the M16 platform has gone on for many years.... Fact is, if you take care of it, it will take care of you in battle.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 6:13 pm to upgrayedd
Yeah, it's true. Any rifle with a "forward assist" built into the design jams too much. Anyone who has carried that in the sand has probably heard the dreaded screech a grain of sand can cause. Wanna know why there's no "S.P.O.R.T.S." for AKs?
Posted on 3/5/18 at 6:20 pm to upgrayedd
Every platform has its flaws, but it really has seemed odd to me that for such a long time the preferred weapon of our enemy has been the AK47, with its nearly flawless chambering action, and we've stuck with the M16/M4.
Two cousins of mine (one Army, one USMC) served in Iraq during OIF. They had similar stories about having to keep their weapons extremely clean in the sandy environs of where most of our modern warfare has occured... while they both witnessed enemy combatants dig up shallowly buried AKs and immediately put them to use without issue.
I know H&K has been trying to produce some next gen military weapons for US forces for quite some time, but for whatever reason (cost is a strong factor if I hear correctly) we just haven't jumped on it.
Two cousins of mine (one Army, one USMC) served in Iraq during OIF. They had similar stories about having to keep their weapons extremely clean in the sandy environs of where most of our modern warfare has occured... while they both witnessed enemy combatants dig up shallowly buried AKs and immediately put them to use without issue.
I know H&K has been trying to produce some next gen military weapons for US forces for quite some time, but for whatever reason (cost is a strong factor if I hear correctly) we just haven't jumped on it.
Posted on 3/5/18 at 6:41 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
flawed operating system that makes the weapons jam easily
lol
What do they want, a piston operating system?
Posted on 3/5/18 at 6:51 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
For decades, troops have been complaining about the limitations of the M16 rifle and M4 carbine, both of which are hindered by the same flawed operating system that makes the weapons jam easily. But after years of ignoring small arms in favor of expensive aircraft and warships, the Pentagon is taking a long, hard look at how to give the Army 11 Bang Bangs and Marine grunts a better weapon
They have tried this several times and still haven't found nor developed a true replacement. A true replacment is not going to happen if NATO stays committed to the 5.56. I can see an "evolved" version utilizing a mid length system and possibly even re engineer lower receiver and magazines to chamber the larger 90 grain and 100 grain 5.56 rounds. I just don't see any current weapons system that is a 5.56 caliber rifle out there there would make it worthwhile to replace the M4.
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