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re: This is what happens when leagues compete instead of clubs
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:30 am to cwil177
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:30 am to cwil177
quote:
No MLS owner is going to be ok with pro rel. I'm not opposed to pro rel but it's just not feasible any time in the next 20 years.
All of this, in my estimation, is correct.
That being said I'm not sure we have a good plan to make US soccer any more relevant in the next 20 years than it is as we sit, pissed off, today.
We aren't willing to make the radical changes like Germany did back in the early 2000s. We need to get OK with what we have for better or for worse.
0
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:31 am to pvilleguru
quote:
I still don't see what's stopping NASL or some other league from using pro/rel.
because they are competing with other leagues, which is the whole point of what we're talking about here. Was that not clear from my OP title?
The FEDERATION needs to show some leadership here, you can't expect leagues to do it.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:31 am to LSU316
quote:
find me an inner city kid at a "youth academy".
AUFC has some. I know they got one guy after they saw him playing at a MARTA station.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:32 am to pvilleguru
quote:
I still don't see what's stopping NASL or some other league from using pro/rel.
Nothing but the leagues status from USSF will always frick it over
MLS's closed franchise system and its marriage with the USSF frick us over in a ton of ways.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:33 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
MLS's closed franchise system and its marriage with the USSF frick us over in a ton of ways.
this is plain as day to anyone paying attention yet many US "fans" refuse to acknowledge it. It's bizarre.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:34 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Nothing but the leagues status from USSF will always frick it over
How?
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:35 am to pvilleguru
quote:
AUFC has some. I know they got one guy after they saw him playing at a MARTA station.
No doubt there are exceptions....but there is no doubt a gap between the haves and have nots when it comes to the ability to get good soccer training at a young age.
Couple that with the fact that there are many entire towns of have nots in the south (arguably where the best American athletes originate from) and you can see the problem here.
ETA With the problems that football is having I hear more and more talk about parents not wanting their boys to play football. US Soccer should be in every town doing whatever it takes to recruit those parents to soccer. I'm just not seeing it happen. It is crazy. There are so many towns in south LA that have 0 options for youth soccer....that is unreal.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 8:39 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:36 am to pvilleguru
quote:
How
bc only the top status league will receive the most money and perks
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 8:37 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:37 am to pvilleguru
quote:
How?
if you were an investor would you be interested in putting a boatload of cash into a AA baseball team?
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 8:38 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:41 am to Draconian Sanctions
I would if I was joining a group of likeminded teams with the desire to do the right thing.
If they put an exciting product on the field, it will bring fans, which will bring the money.
The average person doesn't know USSF has divisions. There's a lot of untapped potential out there.
If they put an exciting product on the field, it will bring fans, which will bring the money.
The average person doesn't know USSF has divisions. There's a lot of untapped potential out there.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 8:44 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:45 am to pvilleguru
and that does happen on an ad hoc basis, but not at the level needed to sustain a legitimate challenge to a league who gets all the benefits of the arbitrary "D1" designation.
Imagine in the late 50's how much harder it would have been for the AFL to compete with the NFL if some governing body labeled the NFL as "division 1" and all potential challengers as minor league. A governing body with close ties to NFL ownership. Sounds absurd, doesn't it? Why does MLS need that designation again?
There are people out there interested in investing in soccer but want to do so at the highest level they can. Those people who are shut out of MLS go to Europe instead and who can blame them? Pro/Rel doesn't seem to scare them off.
Imagine in the late 50's how much harder it would have been for the AFL to compete with the NFL if some governing body labeled the NFL as "division 1" and all potential challengers as minor league. A governing body with close ties to NFL ownership. Sounds absurd, doesn't it? Why does MLS need that designation again?
There are people out there interested in investing in soccer but want to do so at the highest level they can. Those people who are shut out of MLS go to Europe instead and who can blame them? Pro/Rel doesn't seem to scare them off.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 8:46 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:45 am to pvilleguru
Game experience would be huge for a 2nd tier in America.
You're just not going to all of a sudden have the grass roots support like Leeds or Fulham.....you're going to have to give these fans something to like about coming to the game other than the game and the team. $1 beer and $.50 hotdogs have worked well for the Zephyrs in the past.
Not to mention the allure of "your" team getting to the top flight is something that I personally think a lot of American cities could get behind.....assuming the top flight is worth a damn.
You're just not going to all of a sudden have the grass roots support like Leeds or Fulham.....you're going to have to give these fans something to like about coming to the game other than the game and the team. $1 beer and $.50 hotdogs have worked well for the Zephyrs in the past.
Not to mention the allure of "your" team getting to the top flight is something that I personally think a lot of American cities could get behind.....assuming the top flight is worth a damn.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:48 am to LSU316
quote:
Not to mention the allure of "your" team getting to the top flight is something that I personally think a lot of American cities could get behind.
Yup. People say "oh well the lower leagues need to be stronger first" which is a completely backwards way of looking at it.
Institute pro/rel and interest in lower level soccer, where those communities now actually have a chance of making it to the top tier on the field without paying Garber's $200 million extortion fee, explodes.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:53 am to LSU316
quote:
you're just not going to all of a sudden have the grass roots support like Leeds or Fulham...
Yet you have teams like Cincinnati FC drawing 20,000 - 30,000 regular in the USL. Hell, little ole Chattanooga FC has an awesome fan base in the NPSL. There is grass roots growth all over and you are denying it.
quote:
not to mention the allure of "your" team getting to the top flight is something that I personally think a lot of American cities could get behind.....assuming the top flight is worth a damn.
And see the last statement is why I don't believe a word a lot of soccer snobs touting pro/rel are saying. Even if we had pro/rel you would still the top flight (MLS) isn't good enough and that the USA's best hope for international success is to send all of our best players to Europe.
I just think that's a bull shite attitude. Be proud of what we have here and support it and with the potential in the U.S. it can grow to enourmous heights.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:03 am to Draconian Sanctions
Costa Rica, Panama, T&T, among others have players, quite a few players, playing in MLS. They're going to Russia, U.S.A. is not. How is pro/rel (which, on the grand scale I favor) or lack of it in MLS working out for THOSE sides?
Pro/Rel at the club level has nothing to do with national team success. Do you really think these guys are thinking, well I have no shot at getting relegated for my club, so I'll tank this shite in qualifying? No one can be that ignorant.
Pro/Rel at the club level has nothing to do with national team success. Do you really think these guys are thinking, well I have no shot at getting relegated for my club, so I'll tank this shite in qualifying? No one can be that ignorant.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:09 am to Draconian Sanctions
Still searching for your post from 2013 blaming lack of promotion and relegation for the USA's paltry 1st place finish in WC qualifying.
Now, I can appreciate the trolling of this thread, A+ timing.
Now, I can appreciate the trolling of this thread, A+ timing.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:14 am to bodask42
quote:
just think that's a bull shite attitude. Be proud of what we have here and support it and with the potential in the U.S. it can grow to enourmous heights.
You are part of the problem
What we have is a fricking joke
All the way down to the youth level
There is a proven blueprint and the USSF refuses to follow it.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 9:18 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:20 am to bodask42
quote:
Yet you have teams like Cincinnati FC drawing 20,000 - 30,000 regular in the USL. Hell, little ole Chattanooga FC has an awesome fan base in the NPSL. There is grass roots growth all over and you are denying it.
I'm not in tune with the way those teams draw....if that is the case then that seems like we should go pro/rel sooner if those teams are already established. Why wouldn't they want a shot to promote to MLS????
quote:
Even if we had pro/rel you would still the top flight (MLS) isn't good enough
Show me where I said that....I'm promoting pro/rel so I think MLS is good enough for it right now...that statement was an overall statement that to do that you would have to have a good top tier which the MLS is.
quote:
the USA's best hope for international success is to send all of our best players to Europe.
Again show me where I said this. It is dead wrong....yea it can help to have some players in Europe but the USA can't expect to get all of it's players from Europe that is just dumb. You have to have your homegrown league grow the talent, train the talent, and reward the talent.
quote:
Be proud of what we have here and support it
I've done that....it got is to a loss to T&T and missing the 2018 WC.
quote:
with the potential in the U.S. it can grow to enourmous heights.
With the way the system is currently run I disagree. The best we can hope for is what we have already seen if we keep it the way it is now.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:23 am to LSU316
quote:
With the way the system is currently run I disagree. The best we can hope for is what we have already seen if we keep it the way it is now.
Exactly the US system is a glass ceiling
That is hindering youth development for Americans but making our confederation opposition better.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:23 am to RedPop4
quote:
Pro/Rel at the club level has nothing to do with national team success.
So you do realize that the national team depends on the clubs to develop it's talent right.
I mean the understanding of that fact is pivotal to even understanding this argument.
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