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re: Are we really talking about a modern European country breaking apart in Civil War?
Posted on 10/10/17 at 2:44 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Posted on 10/10/17 at 2:44 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
It would be similar to Bavaria separating from Germany.
Or St. George separating from Baton Rouge.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 2:45 pm to Navytiger74
Lot of bad blood left over from the Civil War...a LOT of bad blood....you could get locked up or worse just for speaking Catalan in Franco's Spain.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 2:45 pm to Jim Rockford
This is not a 21st Century "modern" European phenomenon.
The Catalonia and others like the Basque have wanted autonomy or outright independence since the 19th Century.
They actually gained this before Franco took over and suppressed them.
We can only hope for a peaceful and mutually beneficial solution in these modern times.
The Catalonia and others like the Basque have wanted autonomy or outright independence since the 19th Century.
They actually gained this before Franco took over and suppressed them.
We can only hope for a peaceful and mutually beneficial solution in these modern times.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 3:28 pm to Navytiger74
quote:
Highly doubtful they’ll achieve true independence this go-round. They may win some concessions from Madrid, though.
The independance movement has the high ground, especially after forcibly keeping people from voting, and its not going to get any better. Majority of people under 40 want a seperation from Madrid, and them watching Madrid beating innocent people to keep them in wont help. Even further if Madrid tries to dissolve the regional parliament it's game on.
Madrid doesnt have many good options. They would have been wise to let the people vote it down on their own.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 3:29 pm to bamarep
quote:
Someone fill me in on Spanish socio-economics. Are the Catalonians the ones that are sick of the pro EU crap and are doing something about it?
No. Its not really like that. If anything, Catalonians are the liberals. But Spain is very unique. In virtually all of the world, the leftists were the oppressors and destructors of society during the Cold War area. Spain, who stayed out of the war and thus the US/Soviet direct sphere of influence, had the opposite. Franco was on the right and centered in Madrid.
It has more to do with economics. Catalonia just has better economic resources. It would be something like the German economy tanking and West Germany wanting independence from East Germany since East Germany is a net dead-weight. So in that way, they are against federalism, which is similar to being against EU globalism.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 3:31 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
It would be similar to Bavaria separating from Germany.
Thats only true because Bavaria was only fairly recently "German". There was at one point Prussia, Bavaria, etc.
However I think the divide is much bigger between Barcelona and Madrid than Berlin and Munich.
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 3:32 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 3:31 pm to Jim Rockford
Who is the best Civil War general that nobody has ever heard of? I say it's General Phineas Crabapple.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 3:32 pm to Jim Rockford
Scotland has been pushing for independence from Great Britain recently but the issue goes back many centuries.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 3:40 pm to 14&Counting
quote:Some friends of ours sent me a copy PBS’ recent masterpiece Charles III. Silly at times. But in keeping with what I learnt (learned) of our allies, friends, and cousins in God’s kingdom.
Lot of bad blood left over from the Civil War...a LOT of bad blood....you could get locked up or worse just for speaking Catalan in Franco's Spain.
I recommend it.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 3:45 pm to bamarep
The Catalons are pro-eu like Scotland. Catalonia is the wealthiest region in the country and home to Barcelona, one of the biggest tourism attractions in Europe. Since all EU countries use the same currency, are at peace, and can trade and travel freely with one-another, the risk of partition simply isn’t there anymore. Before, regions that didn't like each other might band together into larger nation states for protection and for better access to markets, but now those concerns are largely gone thanks to NATO and the Eurozone. Look for more decentralization of the great nation states, like Germany and Italy especially, in coming years while a simultaneous movement looks to turn Europe from simply an economic union to a federal sovereign. In fact, last decade, Europe nearly voted in favor a referendum to establish a constitutional government, but Germany, France, and Italy rejected it by narrow margins, and England by a wider margin. With Brexit and rising support for a central government to deal with issues like fiscal policy and immigration, there is a really good chance the European Union could become something resembling a United States of Europe in the next 10 years.
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:15 pm to Jim Rockford
This has been brewing since the 1700s
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:21 pm to LSURussian
If the Scots actually believed in freedom they'd vote to leave the UK and remain outside the EU. Instead they want to leave the UK largely based on wars that occurred hundreds of years ago but throw their lot in with the EU, a bureaucratic monstrosity whose primary power lies in Germany, a country at war with Scotland less than 8 decades ago.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:23 pm to SCLibertarian
They want to leave the UK and stay with the EU so they can maintain the Eurozone free trade, have greater control over their oil reserves, and institute a more robust welfare state. Also, the EU isn't run in Germany, but in Belgium. Germany is just the country that most often uses its banks to bailout dysfunctional countries like Greece.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:31 pm to Jim Rockford
Nah.
Language. Catalon.
Czechs and Slovakia split peacefully.
Language. Catalon.
Czechs and Slovakia split peacefully.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:46 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
Separate language
Is it really though? Or is it just a dialect?
It pretty much just seems like Spanish with some flavor to me.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:46 pm to Jim Rockford
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/13/19 at 6:43 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:50 pm to TrueTiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/13/19 at 6:44 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:51 pm to cokebottleag
Its about slightly closer than Portugese and Spanish.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:53 pm to TheIrishFro
The only reason they feel comfortable in demanding independence is because of the relative peace of the past hundred years in Europe. After World War II and the Cold War have ended, they don't feel like there would be any danger for such a small, rich area to break away. They want to be independent and let the larger countries of Europe and America subsidize their defense so they can live like kings on the extra money.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 5:00 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
Is it really though? Or is it just a dialect?
Do you consider any of the Romance languages separate then? Catalan and Spanish do not have intelligibility, and a person who is fluent in Spanish would not understand Catalan. Those languages are under the larger Ibero-Romance language tree, but these are distinct from one another, and each has a different history.
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