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re: Why aren't these conservative geniuses talking about repealing the 17th?
Posted on 8/2/17 at 9:21 am to weagle99
Posted on 8/2/17 at 9:21 am to weagle99
quote:
repealing the 17th (which is more important IMO)
Why in the world is this board so obsessed with not letting citizens vote for their own Senators directly? You all bitch about corruption 24/7, yet you advocate for one of the most corrupt systems of election.
Is it because you think it will help you gain more Senators? Because if we did repeal the 17th, you know who would be gone? The Tea Party, Rand Paul, and all your other favorites. It would be the ultimate establishment picks.
I seriously don't get it. You are advocating for something that goes completely against all the other things you like to advocate for.
*Usually, no one ever responds to me, but somehow, this thread blossoms up again day after day.
This post was edited on 8/2/17 at 9:30 am
6
Posted on 8/2/17 at 9:30 am to 5thTiger
quote:
I seriously don't get it.
That's because you don't understand the concept of dual federalism, or the political theory behind why our government was set up the way it was.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 9:34 am to 5thTiger
quote:
I seriously don't get it. You are advocating for something that goes completely against all the other things you like to advocate for.
Like libs and muslims?
Posted on 8/2/17 at 9:41 am to 5thTiger
quote:
Why in the world is this board so obsessed with not letting citizens vote for their own Senators directly? You all bitch about corruption 24/7, yet you advocate for one of the most corrupt systems of election.
Is it because you think it will help you gain more Senators? Because if we did repeal the 17th, you know who would be gone? The Tea Party, Rand Paul, and all your other favorites. It would be the ultimate establishment picks.
This statement evidences your misunderstanding (or ignorance) regarding the importance of the pre-17th Amendment system.
Regardless of corruption or party (and there was plenty of each), the "old" system required the Senators to be answerable to the STATE GOVERNMENTS, not the citizenry. That's what the House was for.
The Constitution (the Founders) realized that all governments will naturally seek to aggrandize power, so one necessary check on the national government was to let the states have a DIRECT influence on the national government (by giving it a direct influence on legislation).
Do you honestly think there would be unfunded mandates, or all sorts of other impositions on state authority, by the national government if Senators had to answer to the governors/legislators of their states? Do you think that the tax system would be so incredibly weighted to the feds so that it is almost impossible for states to raise taxes, resulting in some of the current fiscal situations that exist (some of which are due to required state spending under federal law)?
Posted on 8/2/17 at 10:27 am to 5thTiger
quote:
Why in the world is this board so obsessed with not letting citizens vote for their own Senators directly? You all bitch about corruption 24/7, yet you advocate for one of the most corrupt systems of election. Is it because you think it will help you gain more Senators? Because if we did repeal the 17th, you know who would be gone? The Tea Party, Rand Paul, and all your other favorites. It would be the ultimate establishment picks. I seriously don't get it. You are advocating for something that goes completely against all the other things you like to advocate for. *Usually, no one ever responds to me, but somehow, this thread blossoms up again day after day.
Thank You. This is EXACTLY what my biggest concern is about a 17th repeal. The Gilded Age is a prime example of why we need the 17th ( or a compromise on popular election)
All the repeal will do is ENSURE that we only get establishment picks for either party.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:42 pm to 5thTiger
quote:I agree.
Why in the world is this board so obsessed with not letting citizens vote for their own Senators directly? You all bitch about corruption 24/7, yet you advocate for one of the most corrupt systems of election.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:59 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
Why in the world is this board so obsessed with not letting citizens vote for their own Senators directly?
Because we already do that with the house of reps.
Direct and popular election of senators robbed state governments of their own representation in DC. Senators were supposed to be state governments ambassadors to the federal government while representatives represent the people themselves.
The senate today is just a glorified House of Reps with less members and longer terms representing an entire state population when that responsibility was already carried out by the reps themselves.
It's redundant and serves no purpose.
quote:
yet you advocate for one of the most corrupt systems of election.
Even if they were corrupt, they would still only be acting their own states governments best interests while the representatives act in the best interests of the people.
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