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Strategy Question: recruiting lesser talent that "fits" our scheme under O
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:31 am
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:31 am
is this ultimately a severely flawed strategy based on one major premise: we hired O for three main reasons: (1) he was cheap, so we could splash on expensive coordinators to make up for his terrible coaching ability (2) he would recruit on Bama's level, and (3) he would provide continuity from the Miles era.
it seems that we're sacrificing 2 hard in order to find recruits that fit into our scheme (primarily on offense). here is the question: since the entire O hire presents some severe stability issues (good coordinators will leave), aren't we potentially severely screwing up our future viability by having below-LSU talent that fits an offense we no longer run (once Canada leaves)?
the ultimate question is always, "are we taking steps to get on Bama's level?" and this recruiting cycle seems to answer "no" to that
it seems that we're sacrificing 2 hard in order to find recruits that fit into our scheme (primarily on offense). here is the question: since the entire O hire presents some severe stability issues (good coordinators will leave), aren't we potentially severely screwing up our future viability by having below-LSU talent that fits an offense we no longer run (once Canada leaves)?
the ultimate question is always, "are we taking steps to get on Bama's level?" and this recruiting cycle seems to answer "no" to that
17
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:34 am to SlowFlowPro
Maybe this staff is good at identifying talent BEFORE it gets rated properly?
We will see. But, I have no illusion that I know how to judge these kids I've never seen / heard of better than O, Aranda, Canada, et al.
I just cheer like hell for the dudes in P & G!
We will see. But, I have no illusion that I know how to judge these kids I've never seen / heard of better than O, Aranda, Canada, et al.
I just cheer like hell for the dudes in P & G!
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:35 am to SlowFlowPro
Consider this. Orgeron MIGHT be ruthless. What if he replaces some/several of these commits as we approach Nsd. What if he is doing it like saban does?
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:38 am to SlowFlowPro
it's way too soon to call this below LSU talent.
I would say a better evaluation will come after the rankings updates after the opening.
The rankings right now are very rough. Honestly, LSU is just not this used to seeing this many kids committed this early (most of these 3 stars would have been wait listed under Miles).
Also, it is a very, very down year in Louisiana football so you need to take that into consideration as well.
It will be very interesting to see the rankings updated because a lot of these 'three stars' will get bumped pretty high.
I would say a better evaluation will come after the rankings updates after the opening.
The rankings right now are very rough. Honestly, LSU is just not this used to seeing this many kids committed this early (most of these 3 stars would have been wait listed under Miles).
Also, it is a very, very down year in Louisiana football so you need to take that into consideration as well.
It will be very interesting to see the rankings updated because a lot of these 'three stars' will get bumped pretty high.
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 8:41 am
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:41 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Consider this. Orgeron MIGHT be ruthless. What if he replaces some/several of these commits as we approach Nsd. What if he is doing it like saban does?
will be interesting to watch that potential narrative unfold
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:44 am to SlowFlowPro
As my long ban after hiring will show, I'm not a sunshine pusher but I think this is just Orgeron trusting his evaluations. I don't see many questionable guys committed.
The 2nd Georgia d lineman was obviously just taken to get the other 2 guys and if Anderson doesn't sign here, he definitely won't.
The Ferriday and Jena kids are potential diamonds in the rough types. The evangel DB is undersized but makes plays. I'd say we can use a couple of his type instead of always getting 6'2 corners.
Everyone else easily fits in based off their offer sheets. Rantards are just freaking out as if being labeled a 4 star by guys who couldn't get jobs writing for newspapers makes you magically a better prospect.
The 2nd Georgia d lineman was obviously just taken to get the other 2 guys and if Anderson doesn't sign here, he definitely won't.
The Ferriday and Jena kids are potential diamonds in the rough types. The evangel DB is undersized but makes plays. I'd say we can use a couple of his type instead of always getting 6'2 corners.
Everyone else easily fits in based off their offer sheets. Rantards are just freaking out as if being labeled a 4 star by guys who couldn't get jobs writing for newspapers makes you magically a better prospect.
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 8:50 am
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:46 am to Maximus
quote:
As my long ban after hiring will show, I'm not a sunshine pusher but I think this is just Orgeron trusting his evaluations. I don't see many questionable guys committed.
I agree. I think everyone will be happy with the class when all is said and done.
Will it be top 1-3, no. I'm guessing around 5-7.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:52 am to Maximus
quote:
The Ferriday and Jena kids are potential diamonds in the rough types.
i will divert this thread slightly. what's up with that Scott kid from Ferriday?
he doesn't seem like a good athlete but has a good frame. is he going to be bulked up to play DE in the 3-4? he doesn't have the athleticism to play any LB slot and i don't think we're recruiting him at TE with the other guys we've gotten/are targeting
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:56 am to SlowFlowPro
They said he was rushing off the end at camp before the offer so definitely not TE. I don't think I watched his film. I saw a Ferriday guy on here saying he was a super athlete.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:10 am to Maximus
quote:
I saw a Ferriday guy on here saying he was a super athlete.
ESPN. only data i have
5.34 40 and his SPARQ was 59.46 (the worst at the testing was 55.74 and the best was 1302.6, Javian Hawkins)
he also had the lowest vertical at the event (the best individual test of explosiveness)
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
aren't we potentially severely screwing up our future viability by having below-LSU talent
Let's see, saban get's a kid unranked then get's bumped up to four and five star lsu fans claim recruiting service is biased, it's the bama bump.
O, who's know as a recruiting stud, get's kids to commit early before recruiting service ranks them, lsu fans claim he's screwing up our future viability by have below lsu talent.
quote:
the ultimate question is always, "are we taking steps to get on Bama's level?" and this recruiting cycle seems to answer "no" to that
Appears lsu fan's are making definitive judgments about a recruiting class in June vs what will sign in February.
If anything, we should see what is signed in February. Just a thought, there are a number of strategies that can be at play. Some of these kids are under rated and will get a bump by the services. Some of them may be the second option if we miss on the first.
Since we are comparing saban and O, Saban has done this for years. If he gets the #1 guy, he tells #2, who is committed to look around. it's why other fans call it getting "processed". At the end of the day, it appears O is filling his needs and trusting his evaluation. I highly doubt he will quit recruiting in August.
Lastly, If there is one thing you can trust about O, It's that he will bring in talent. There is almost 30 years of history and dozens of nfl players, not to mention some hall of famers, he recruited to support this.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:16 am to SlowFlowPro
i feel like we go through this every year. We offer 3 star guys before they play their SR year and all of a sudden by the end of their Sr year, then everyone offers them and everyone starts talking about them.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:21 am to SlowFlowPro
Totally Agree. Les Miles Was successful at LSU due to superior talent that ran a crappy offense. IS coach O's thought process bring in lesser talent guys that can play in a scheme? Starting to wonder if Canada has convinced Coach O of this. This is not good though because as you stated if Canada leaves in a year or two then Scheme players may not fit a different type of offense if it is changed.
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 9:30 am
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:26 am to FLObserver
what players right now do you not think are good enough?
go on the record
go on the record
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:37 am to SlowFlowPro
CEO's team building strategy though recruiting is obviously different than Miles. CEO seems to be identifying talent that can play at a 4 and 5 star level in their 4th and 5th years instead of holding open many spots for 4 and 5 star talent that will be gone in 3 years.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:37 am to Lester Earl
just to be clear, i made this thread after reading the thread re: the H-back
while i like H-backs, i was just thinking about over-recruiting them and being left with guys on scholly down the road who won't fit into a new offensive system
i'm not saying he's "not good enough" but we can be left in a bind down the road, and that's more for the philosophy behind the O hire more than the actual recruiting itself
while i like H-backs, i was just thinking about over-recruiting them and being left with guys on scholly down the road who won't fit into a new offensive system
i'm not saying he's "not good enough" but we can be left in a bind down the road, and that's more for the philosophy behind the O hire more than the actual recruiting itself
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:41 am to GumboPot
quote:
CEO's team building strategy though recruiting is obviously different than Miles. CEO seems to be identifying talent that can play at a 4 and 5 star level in their 4th and 5th years instead of holding open many spots for 4 and 5 star talent that will be gone in 3 years.
this can also apply to the question in OP
what if O can't make it 4 years?
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:47 am to Maximus
quote:
As my long ban after hiring will show, I'm not a sunshine pusher but I think this is just Orgeron trusting his evaluations. I don't see many questionable guys committed.
The 2nd Georgia d lineman was obviously just taken to get the other 2 guys and if Anderson doesn't sign here, he definitely won't.
The Ferriday and Jena kids are potential diamonds in the rough types. The evangel DB is undersized but makes plays. I'd say we can use a couple of his type instead of always getting 6'2 corners.
Everyone else easily fits in based off their offer sheets. Rantards are just freaking out as if being labeled a 4 star by guys who couldn't get jobs writing for newspapers makes you magically a better prospect.
Who is this ?
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:51 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
what if O can't make it 4 years?
That's simply the risk of being a college football coach.
We are typing here on a message board trying to nail down CEO's recruiting and team building philosophy and what we nail down this year may be totally different next year. IMO CEO's recruiting philosophy is probably driven by the talent available. Especially given the fact that Louisiana is not totally loaded this year is probably why we are offering more three stars early this year. This could be a really nice core group of guys in 4 to 5 years. Given that Louisiana is pretty stacked next year, recruiting will probably look totally different.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:53 am to GumboPot
quote:
CEO's team building strategy though recruiting is obviously different than Miles. CEO seems to be identifying talent that can play at a 4 and 5 star level in their 4th and 5th years instead of holding open many spots for 4 and 5 star talent that will be gone in 3 years.
Thats bullshite. Do you really think Coach O is passing on 4 and 5 star recruits and instead getting 3 stars so they will stay for 4 years? The reason our class is loaded with 3 stars is because he hasn't had any luck pulling the 5 stars this year. The narrative was all the 3 stars are later going to be moved up to 4 and 5 stars. Now it is Coach O is passing on the 5 stars to recruit hard working 3 stars. Bottom line is this class will probably be around 16-17 3 stars. That is not going to cut it in the SEC.
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