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Started By
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Why do pistol manufacturers label strikee fired actions as DAO?
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:02 pm
Sig labels their p320ca DAO and hk labels their vp9 as DAO. There are tons of others as we'll. It is misleading. The only thing I can think is it makes the firearms appear more safe
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:10 pm to 3morereps
I think last time this got brought up it turned into a pissing match so
The trigger both cocks (partially) and fires the gun on a pull, so it's considered double action. A single action trigger performs the single action of releasing the sear.
The trigger both cocks (partially) and fires the gun on a pull, so it's considered double action. A single action trigger performs the single action of releasing the sear.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:16 pm to AlxTgr
Man you make a strong case there
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:16 pm to 3morereps
1. ATF has to agree with the categorization/labeling.
2. Glocks are DAO because pulling the trigger completes the "cocking" of the the trigger mechanism (the striker spring is placed under partial tension when you rack the slide). As the trigger is pulled, the tension on the striker spring is maximized and then the striker is released.
This is the definition of double action -- pulling the trigger "cocks/tensions" the hammer/striker spring and releases the hammer/striker.
3. I'll leave it to the SIG owners to explain why they are categorized as DAO (I don't own any SIGs).
eta: DS&FI beat me to it while I was typing.
2. Glocks are DAO because pulling the trigger completes the "cocking" of the the trigger mechanism (the striker spring is placed under partial tension when you rack the slide). As the trigger is pulled, the tension on the striker spring is maximized and then the striker is released.
This is the definition of double action -- pulling the trigger "cocks/tensions" the hammer/striker spring and releases the hammer/striker.
3. I'll leave it to the SIG owners to explain why they are categorized as DAO (I don't own any SIGs).
eta: DS&FI beat me to it while I was typing.
This post was edited on 6/4/17 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:18 pm to dawg23
Glock doesn't really fit either, but in real operation is much closer to a single action.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:21 pm to AlxTgr
No.
Does a glock trigger perform more than a single action when pulled?
Don't they have a bunch of internal safeties that it trips as well? Probably closer to a triple action than double really.
Does a glock trigger perform more than a single action when pulled?
Don't they have a bunch of internal safeties that it trips as well? Probably closer to a triple action than double really.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:36 pm to AlxTgr
quote:Not the case.
Glock doesn't really fit either, but in real operation is much closer to a single action.
I have a couple of factory "cut-away" Glocks (non-firing training pistols that I use in my classes) that allow you to see the internal movement of every component. The next time if you're in BR, call me and I'll be glad to let you examine the internal components as the trigger is pulled -- compression of the striker spring is clearly visible.
As DS&FI has mentioned, pulling the trigger also deactivates the three internal safeties. The cut-away pistols allow you to see this as well. As he so eloquently put it, the Glocks are actually TAO pistols.
ETA video showing cut-away Glock -- watch from 3:34 - 3:54 mark. LINK
This post was edited on 6/4/17 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 6/4/17 at 12:49 pm to dawg23
I'm wasting my time. Carry on.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 1:12 pm to AlxTgr
No need to hang around all day being wrong
Posted on 6/4/17 at 2:46 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Just from a functional aspect, I think of them as SAO. I know there are different internal mechanics, but to me:
a SAO pistol with no safety engaged, is "cocked" (ready to fire) when you rack the slide, and pulling trigger will fire the chambered round. I mean, something will hit the primer and it will attempt to set the charge off to launch the bullet down the barrel.
If for whatever reason that chambered round does not fire (light strike, dummy round, etc), simply pulling the trigger again does not cause something to strike the primer again, in a SAO. You must recock the mechanism; with a striker fired gun you can't get to the striker, so you rack the slide. With a 1911 or Hi Power (SAO hammer fired guns), you can access the hammer, and can recock it... or you can rack the slide.
With a DA/SA gun, you can just pull the trigger again.
So in JUST MY OPINION, I consider anything that can have a second strike by just pulling the trigger, to be DA, and anything that requires additional action beyond pulling the trigger to be SA.
Going beyond that gets confusing and pointless to me, as far as function.
a SAO pistol with no safety engaged, is "cocked" (ready to fire) when you rack the slide, and pulling trigger will fire the chambered round. I mean, something will hit the primer and it will attempt to set the charge off to launch the bullet down the barrel.
If for whatever reason that chambered round does not fire (light strike, dummy round, etc), simply pulling the trigger again does not cause something to strike the primer again, in a SAO. You must recock the mechanism; with a striker fired gun you can't get to the striker, so you rack the slide. With a 1911 or Hi Power (SAO hammer fired guns), you can access the hammer, and can recock it... or you can rack the slide.
With a DA/SA gun, you can just pull the trigger again.
So in JUST MY OPINION, I consider anything that can have a second strike by just pulling the trigger, to be DA, and anything that requires additional action beyond pulling the trigger to be SA.
Going beyond that gets confusing and pointless to me, as far as function.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 3:05 pm to 3morereps
Glock calls their action "Safe Action" for a reason. They know it's not a true DAO (ATF has to categorize the action somehow and can't create a classification for every variation) and it's certainly more than a SAO. Other manufacturers chose to just keep with DAO as it's just an academic distinction that really doesn't matter.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 3:41 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I think last time this got brought up it turned into a pissing match
True dat!
I agree w/ the confusion surrounding the description/designation of handguns w/ striker mechanisms. To cloud the water even more, consider the Canik TT9SA (yes, the "SA" designation stands for "single action.") Yet, here's a description of the trigger mechanism; sounds like a typical striker mechanism:
quote:
What I received, however, is the Canik TP9SA. Unlike the standard TP9, it has a Glock-like trigger safety so that the gun can safely be carried in single-action mode with the striker pre-cocked.
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