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re: Is there a secular argument against abortions?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:34 pm to Blob Fish
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:34 pm to Blob Fish
This is a very selfish, shortsighted, and evil mindset.
Take this argument:
And apply it to the mentally and physically handicaps. The repeat offenders( of whatever level) in prison, the homeless, etc. why don't we just kill them all without warning? Wouldn't that save us some money?
You should have your answer.
Just because doing something May "save money" doesn't make it the right thing to do. Especially when they think is potentially killing a perfectly viable infant just because isn't a "burden"
Take this argument:
quote:
In the welfare nanny state that we live in and will be living in for the foreseeable future, if you take morality out of the equation, is it not cheaper for taxpayers to pay for a one time abortion than to pay for food, education, welfare, Medicaid, prison, drug rehab, etc. for all of these unwanted babies born to unfit parents?
And apply it to the mentally and physically handicaps. The repeat offenders( of whatever level) in prison, the homeless, etc. why don't we just kill them all without warning? Wouldn't that save us some money?
You should have your answer.
Just because doing something May "save money" doesn't make it the right thing to do. Especially when they think is potentially killing a perfectly viable infant just because isn't a "burden"
0
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:36 pm to Blob Fish
Adoption?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:38 pm to Blob Fish
You could come up with any secular reason for or against abortion because secularism denies an objective law giver (like God) and leaves each individual to define their own moral code. Those in power choose whatever arbitrary, subjective code that they think is best and enforce it on those under their authority. There is no objective right and wrong, just what works "best" for a given society as determined by those in power.
If you want a secular argument, consider evolutionary theory and how abortion should be forbidden for those who are the most fit in our society as they are removing the best humans from the gene pool.
If you want a secular argument, consider evolutionary theory and how abortion should be forbidden for those who are the most fit in our society as they are removing the best humans from the gene pool.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:53 pm to Blob Fish
To maintain the viability and survival of one's race or culture is one possibility.
See Japan.
See Japan.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:58 pm to Blob Fish
I'm not religious and I'm anti-abortion. I came to that conclusion after viewing 4d images of my 1st child. I find it funny when the so called "party of science" disputes visual evidence of a baby within the womb. I also find it interesting that the law treats an unborn child as a person when a crime is committed against the mother.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 9:06 pm to Blob Fish
quote:having an ounce of human decency. Anybody pro abortion is pure evil. There is nothing more inhumane or disgusting than slaughtering the most helpless lives on this planet. Woman's selfishness is not in the same galaxy of importance as fetus life.
secular argument against abortions
Posted on 5/3/17 at 9:27 pm to Blob Fish
quote:
if you take morality out of the equation, is it not cheaper for taxpayers
Capital punishment without appeals would be cheaper when compared to life sentences and the appeals process.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 9:30 pm to Blob Fish
?? separation of church and state??
Posted on 5/3/17 at 9:40 pm to Blob Fish
This is a pretty complex question wrapped up in a simple one. But the answer to the simple question is intertwined with the answer to another question:
Can morality exist within a purely secular line of thought? I think the answer to that question is obviously yes.
Then the next point would be is it possible to view abortion as morally a bad thing to do without invoking spirituality and religion, and again I say of course this is possible if one defines the beginning of a human life as taking place during the development cycle. Then it becomes a simple argument of "taking a human life is bad, therefore abortion is a bad thing"
Of course, other secular lines of thought on the issue might delve into the fiscal or emotional aspects with a more utilitarian approach. Does the performing of an abortion have a positive or negative impact on the person who recieves the abortion? How about all of humanity? The utilitarian would make his or her judgment on abortion if he or she had quantifiable proof that the average abortion did a net amount of good or bad in the world. Obviously these discussions aren't black and white but they are the origin of a lot of secular arguments.
Can morality exist within a purely secular line of thought? I think the answer to that question is obviously yes.
Then the next point would be is it possible to view abortion as morally a bad thing to do without invoking spirituality and religion, and again I say of course this is possible if one defines the beginning of a human life as taking place during the development cycle. Then it becomes a simple argument of "taking a human life is bad, therefore abortion is a bad thing"
Of course, other secular lines of thought on the issue might delve into the fiscal or emotional aspects with a more utilitarian approach. Does the performing of an abortion have a positive or negative impact on the person who recieves the abortion? How about all of humanity? The utilitarian would make his or her judgment on abortion if he or she had quantifiable proof that the average abortion did a net amount of good or bad in the world. Obviously these discussions aren't black and white but they are the origin of a lot of secular arguments.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 9:54 pm to Blob Fish
Is there a secular argument against KILLING irresponsible people who would rather kill a baby than accept responsibility for the outcome of their bad choices?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 9:56 pm to Blob Fish
How bout teaching personal responsibility instead?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 9:56 pm to Blob Fish
If you take "morality" out of the equation, then just about anything is justifiable. IE Murdering an a-hole....gets him out of the way. Rape...well, if morality doesn't matter...she's hot, so why Not? Seriously, this is a stupid thread.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 11:37 pm to Blob Fish
Cultures that place high value on life are desirable.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 11:37 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 11:41 pm to Blob Fish
I'll take a crack at it.
Abortion and our child support laws tend to eliminate reproductive rights of men and hand them entirely over to women, who can keep or abort their maternal responsibilities to the child without even notifying the father.
The father can't abort his responsibility of child support legally. It would be fair if we allow him to voluntarily abort his responsibilities or if we eliminate the mother's ability to abort hers.
This is one of those situations in which something best for society is actually unfair and unequal.
Abortion and our child support laws tend to eliminate reproductive rights of men and hand them entirely over to women, who can keep or abort their maternal responsibilities to the child without even notifying the father.
The father can't abort his responsibility of child support legally. It would be fair if we allow him to voluntarily abort his responsibilities or if we eliminate the mother's ability to abort hers.
This is one of those situations in which something best for society is actually unfair and unequal.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 11:42 pm to Blob Fish
quote:
Is there a secular argument against abortions?
Of course.
The state.
The moral obligations of the state.
To care for and provide...regardless of circumstances (such as being unborn). That's what the State tells us in every other secular helpless situation. We have a duty to protect and to provide.
From dog to cat to horse...and it's not religious...its morality sans religion.
It's called this rare thing...
Human.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 11:44 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 11:57 pm to Blob Fish
Is secular conventional wisdom OK with killing?
Posted on 5/4/17 at 5:51 am to Blob Fish
so youd rather just kill the kid rather than foot the bill eh?
there's your problem. stop being a lazy frick and work on teaching kids some responsibility other than " oh if you have unsafe sex you might possibly maybe get an STD"
show these kids some fricking numbers and statistics on how hard parenting is financially, even with assistance, get them too scared to breed before theyre financially stable.
religious people are against it because of obvious reasons You would think as much as liberals love to point to science for their arguments theyd stop completely ignoring it when it comes to admitting a fetus is a living thing
there's your problem. stop being a lazy frick and work on teaching kids some responsibility other than " oh if you have unsafe sex you might possibly maybe get an STD"
show these kids some fricking numbers and statistics on how hard parenting is financially, even with assistance, get them too scared to breed before theyre financially stable.
religious people are against it because of obvious reasons You would think as much as liberals love to point to science for their arguments theyd stop completely ignoring it when it comes to admitting a fetus is a living thing
Posted on 5/4/17 at 7:42 am to Blob Fish
quote:
In the welfare nanny state that we live in and will be living in for the foreseeable future, if you take morality out of the equation, is it not cheaper for taxpayers to pay for a one time abortion than to pay for food, education, welfare, Medicaid, prison, drug rehab, etc. for all of these unwanted babies born to unfit parents?
If we are going to take morality out of it, why not simply kill all those on welfare too?!
Posted on 5/4/17 at 8:10 am to Blob Fish
Aborting a fetus because you as not ready to be a parent in my opinion is the same as aborting a fetus because it's female and you want a boy.
The whole abortion argument is based on lie after lie. They create hardships in their heads to justify the disgusting act of ending a baby's life for their convenience.
I accept that abortion is legal, I accept it and also feel that the people who get abortions out of convenience are the most disgusting creatures on this or any other planet.
I wish it were as easy to kill them. But alas I am a law abiding citizen.
Having said that I have come to realize what a credit they are doing for society. The overwhelming majority of abortions are preformed on and for the scum of the liberal left. The fact that these people are not procreating is a plus for society as a whole as it is obvious any child reared in such an environment would have no chance at a normal productive life where it grows into a self reliant positive contributor to society with moral values.
SO at beat abortion is a necessary evil, but you can still hate the pieces of shite that contributes to this foul act and at the same time recognize the benefit of the deed.
The whole abortion argument is based on lie after lie. They create hardships in their heads to justify the disgusting act of ending a baby's life for their convenience.
I accept that abortion is legal, I accept it and also feel that the people who get abortions out of convenience are the most disgusting creatures on this or any other planet.
I wish it were as easy to kill them. But alas I am a law abiding citizen.
Having said that I have come to realize what a credit they are doing for society. The overwhelming majority of abortions are preformed on and for the scum of the liberal left. The fact that these people are not procreating is a plus for society as a whole as it is obvious any child reared in such an environment would have no chance at a normal productive life where it grows into a self reliant positive contributor to society with moral values.
SO at beat abortion is a necessary evil, but you can still hate the pieces of shite that contributes to this foul act and at the same time recognize the benefit of the deed.
Posted on 5/4/17 at 8:12 am to Blob Fish
quote:
Is there a secular argument against abortions?
Does secularism include standard morals?
If there is a secular argument against murder, use this same argument against abortion.
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