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Message
The ISP/privacy issue, the dilemma and "conservatives"
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:04 pm
I see a lot of so called conservatives, libertarians, small govt, etc. type folks on here that are very upset that ISPs may be allowed to sell data/information about customer's usage. I get that on the surface this seems like an invasion of privacy and is offensive. At first, this was also my gut reaction but then I thought about it more and it seems pretty clear....
If you favor smaller govt, less regulation, etc., it seems fairly clear to me you should be in favor of this as it REMOVES government regulations that tell private companies what they can and can't do with their own property/equipment/data/etc. that they installed, monitor, maintain, operate and obtain legally. This data has never been private and there was never an expectation that it was, at least for me. The ISP has always had this data and used it internally all the time. Google has done this since day 1 and been very open about it.
This also creates a huge opportunity for market growth for smaller ISPs not named AT&T, Comcast, Google, Time Warner, etc. The smaller ISPs won't be able to financially gain near as much as the big dogs when it comes to selling customer data but they do get a nice big marketing chip to play by selling privacy and security to their customers. If people really value this as much as they claim from all the complaining lately, this will help the smaller ISPs grow if they play their cards right.
So while I don't like the idea of personal data getting exploited for the gain of crony capitalist giants, this is a situation where what they want is actually a step in the right direction as far as reducing government.
As a side, does anyone want to help fund my new affordable super high security VPN service startup?
If you favor smaller govt, less regulation, etc., it seems fairly clear to me you should be in favor of this as it REMOVES government regulations that tell private companies what they can and can't do with their own property/equipment/data/etc. that they installed, monitor, maintain, operate and obtain legally. This data has never been private and there was never an expectation that it was, at least for me. The ISP has always had this data and used it internally all the time. Google has done this since day 1 and been very open about it.
This also creates a huge opportunity for market growth for smaller ISPs not named AT&T, Comcast, Google, Time Warner, etc. The smaller ISPs won't be able to financially gain near as much as the big dogs when it comes to selling customer data but they do get a nice big marketing chip to play by selling privacy and security to their customers. If people really value this as much as they claim from all the complaining lately, this will help the smaller ISPs grow if they play their cards right.
So while I don't like the idea of personal data getting exploited for the gain of crony capitalist giants, this is a situation where what they want is actually a step in the right direction as far as reducing government.
As a side, does anyone want to help fund my new affordable super high security VPN service startup?
20
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:08 pm to notsince98
quote:
it seems fairly clear to me you should be in favor of this as it REMOVES government regulations that tell private companies what they can and can't do with their own property/equipment/data/etc
The problem is that most people fail to understand that this removes a regulation that hasn't even gone in to effect yet.
People seem to think ISPs have always been banned from selling data and now the MEAN OL REPUBLICANS!!! are going to allow them to sell your data now.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:12 pm to notsince98
Sorry Laizzes Fair does not benefit anyone but the companies, at the expense of the consumer.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:27 pm to notsince98
This wouldn't be necessarily a bad thing if ISP's didn't have a virtual monopoly on the market and the flow of information and communications in general. If there were dozens of ISPs rather than a small cabal of colluding geographic monopolies, consumer choice and the free market could do itsmagic.
However ISP's benefit from all of the advantages of being a utility with none of the consumer protections.
However ISP's benefit from all of the advantages of being a utility with none of the consumer protections.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:27 pm to 10888bge
quote:
Laizzes Fair
Do you know how I know you don't know what the frick you're talking about?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:31 pm to kingbob
quote:
However ISP's benefit from all of the advantages of being a utility with none of the consumer protections.
Worth repeating.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:35 pm to notsince98
We've completely abandoned the entire concept of privacy over the last decade or two. Sad
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:35 pm to kingbob
quote:
However ISP's benefit from all of the advantages of being a utility with none of the consumer protections.
You do understand that ISPs have always had to protect PII, PHI, etc. correct? The only thing this law did was add the restriction of sharing your browsing history and app useage data.
Two things that content providers like Google, Amazon, etc. are still free to do. Which inherently gives them a competitive edge over targeted advertising.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:51 pm to notsince98
quote:
If you favor smaller govt, less regulation, etc.
Why do you favor that?
I would surmise it is because underlying that point is at least in part a belief that well functioning markets create the best environment for positive sum, consumer and producer benefiting outcomes right?
If that is the goal, you should be investigating whether this will actually achieve that outcome.
You seem to imply that the ISP is some dynamic marketplace where it is easy to compete. But that is just not the case. In most areas of the country you have only one choice if you want high speed broadband and the monopoly power, in addition to the slew of state and municipal laws/regulations that will remain in place are not in anyway going to pave the way for that monopolistic stronghold to beak.
It just allows the current beneficiaries of that to exploit it even further, without any arguable gain to the consumer.
If a well functioning market is your ideal, this is not a solution to achieving that.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:53 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
We've completely abandoned the entire concept of privacy over the last decade or two. Sad
Not at all. We have abandoned the concept of personal responsibility and private property. Nobody is forced to have an internet service.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:55 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
You seem to imply that the ISP is some dynamic marketplace where it is easy to compete. But that is just not the case. In most areas of the country you have only one choice if you want high speed broadband and the monopoly power, in addition to the slew of state and municipal laws/regulations that will remain in place are not in anyway going to pave the way for that monopolistic stronghold to beak.
Historically this is right but it is changing. For example at my house I have 4 ISPs to choose from and all can provide 1Gbit fiber services. If the smaller companies in my area get a leg up and increase customer bases due to better privacy, they will be able to afford to expand into areas that don't have as many options right now.
this move DOES help level the playing field as it gives another avenue for smaller guys to differentiate themselves from the giants.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 12:59 pm to notsince98
quote:
Nobody is forced to have an internet service.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 1:01 pm to notsince98
quote:
Historically this is right but it is changing.
It's currently correct
quote:
If the smaller companies in my area get a leg up and increase customer bases due to better privacy, they will be able to afford to expand into areas that don't have as many options right now.
Who are the smaller companies in you area?
quote:
this move DOES help level the playing field as it gives another avenue for smaller guys to differentiate themselves from the giants.
No, it's an avenue for the larger companies to charge for privacy. The barriers to entry are absolutely enormous from a financial standpoint for smaller companies
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 1:01 pm to notsince98
quote:
If you favor smaller govt, less regulation, etc., it seems fairly clear to me you should be in favor of this as it REMOVES government regulations that tell private companies what they can and can't do with their own property/equipment/data/etc
So with this logic there shouldn't be any regulation at all on private companies?
Bring back Standard oil and Bell Systems right?
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 1:01 pm to notsince98
quote:Great logic - if these weren't already monopolies.
it REMOVES government regulations that tell private companies what they can and can't do with their own property/equipment/data/etc.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 1:02 pm to 10888bge
quote:
Laizzes Fair
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 1:04 pm to notsince98
It honestly blows my mind that people are losing their collective shite over this, but have no damn problem with social media, Google, etc. hoovering up every single damn thing you do for advertising purposes.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 1:04 pm to notsince98
So you haven't had a brain cell since 1998? That's an ignorant statement.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 1:04 pm to Iosh
Fukkn saved
Posted on 3/29/17 at 1:06 pm to jeff5891
quote:
So with this logic there shouldn't be any regulation at all on private companies?
Bring back Standard oil and Bell Systems right?
Monopolies don't tend to happen naturally. They tend to be the result of big government that creates regulations that help the big boys and hurt the little guys.
yes, i'd be all for getting rid of all government regulations on private companies. How people spend their $ should be regulation enough but that would require people taking personal responsibility and knowing who they are giving their money to and what they are getting in return.
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