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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:36 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
What about a judgement call that should have been overturned by today but a camera angle comes out later, a la 4th and goal from the one with one second left.
Do you review it with the new angle?
I probably wouldn't be for that.
But I see a bright line with timing issues and procedural issues (knowing the downs) on last plays.
Maybe it sounds arbitrary but camera angles and goal line situations and catches need to be decided on the field.
But extra downs and mis-management of the clock or granting special extra down to a team on the last play because refs don't know the rules...that's fruit of the poisonous tree. Our rule of law excludes it, why can't a football field?
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:37 pm to gumbeaux
The committee knows what's up. I don't think it'll hurt them as much as it would under the old system.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:43 pm to ReauxlTide222
Just to re-iterate...
Bad judgment calls happen all the time...and even video replay calls at the end.
Yet those are plays where a team had the right to make that play...and won on maybe a bad call...but they had that right.
But for...total mismanagement of the game by officials...a team that scores the go-ahead on a final play they should have never had that right...to me is a clear difference.
But for incompetence, Team A would have never even been allowed a play.
Team B was allowed a play, but for incompetence the play was deemed good.
One is totally cheating...going above the rules to grant someone special downs outside of the game...
One is subjective interpretation within the rules of the game - although wrong.
Bad judgment calls happen all the time...and even video replay calls at the end.
Yet those are plays where a team had the right to make that play...and won on maybe a bad call...but they had that right.
But for...total mismanagement of the game by officials...a team that scores the go-ahead on a final play they should have never had that right...to me is a clear difference.
But for incompetence, Team A would have never even been allowed a play.
Team B was allowed a play, but for incompetence the play was deemed good.
One is totally cheating...going above the rules to grant someone special downs outside of the game...
One is subjective interpretation within the rules of the game - although wrong.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:47 pm to gumbeaux
Absolutely. They won the game.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:52 pm to AlonsoWDC
quote:
What you do is change the rule that gives Oklahoma State any argument here because it's a poorly written rule - the rule didn't account for turnover on downs.
This. I've got no sympathy for Oklahoma State who was supposed to win a a bullshite technicality like that. The rule is designed to prevent an untimed down on a a last second forward lateral at the 10 yard line or something that would be accepted if the play resulted in a TD, but the offense shouldn't get another play there. In this case it was either Gundy knowing about the rule and trying to win with that BS heave or Gundy not knowing about the rule and not sending a WR out because he's crazy.
Regardless, an untimed down and heave from 60 yards is what CMU deserved, and they delivered.
ETA: This was a technicality. By the letter of the law, OSU should have won. By the intent of the law, CMU deserved the play. I guess it comes down to which one you deem the most important.
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:53 pm to The Boat
quote:
What about Colorado's 5 downs? By rule they had their 4 and their possession was over.
The issue there is Mizzou would have gotten the ball back with 2 seconds on the clock on their own 1 yard line.
With OSU the game was literally over.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:57 pm to gumbeaux
Yes. It's different from other plays in that the play should have never happened in the first place. It's a pretty unique situation. This is one instance where they absolutely should change the record books.
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 10:58 pm
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:57 pm to slackster
quote:
an untimed down and heave from 60 yards is what CMU deserved
NO! Absolutely NOT. The rule says they did NOT deserve this yet they were GIVEN it.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:58 pm to Kafka
And give the Greenies their game in Miami back in 72, which was lost on 5th down- the got 5 heaves into the end zone. And the bowl game we would have played in.
As for Colo, the line marker said 3rd down and that play wouldn't have been ditched had it said 4th down.
As for Colo, the line marker said 3rd down and that play wouldn't have been ditched had it said 4th down.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:01 pm to Overbrook
Mike Gundy is a man. He's 40++.
He can handle it.
He can handle it.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:05 pm to Porcine Human
quote:
Yes. It's different from other plays in that it should have never happened. This is one instance where they absolutely should change the record books.
Maybe they do, but they'll likely change that loss of down rule itself starting next year, so do we give OSU the win that they wouldn't get from here on out?
I think the spirit of the rule should play a part, but I get people who want to stay black and white with it.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:08 pm to LCA131
quote:
NO! Absolutely NOT. The rule says they did NOT deserve this yet they were GIVEN it.
But surely you and I are smart enough to understand the INTENT of said rule, right?
This is not far removed from a team who has the batter go up to bat with untied shoes in hopes that the time runs out while they're fricking around. Whenever possible I'd like the play to stay within the spirit of the game. I find it fitting that it bit OSU in the arse.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:12 pm to Overbrook
quote:
As for Colo, the line marker said 3rd down and that play wouldn't have been ditched had it said 4th down.
That's somewhat a fair point to a degree just looking at it from the far outside but this situation is different.
But Colorado almost ran out of time on their second to last play...so it seems that was their final gamble...and McCartney and coaches probably thought it was 4th down because they could count...You don't run a dive leap over the middle of the field with 10 seconds left and no time-outs if you don't think it's the last play...
I will always believe, the coaches assumed it was the last play...
Luckily, Colorado QB saw the down marker and ran to the line as time was expiring and motioned his line...they barely even spiked it...I seriously doubt this was planned.
But Cornell also had a line-marker that said 3rd down - so they were going off of, we can plan for one more down...and did and forfeited the game out of integrity.
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:13 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
The committee knows what's up. I don't think it'll hurt them as much as it would under the old system.
Agreed. If they still become a legit Big XII and playoff contender, the committee will judge this result appropriately.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:17 pm to slackster
If there was one second left I would be with you. Time had expired. The game, by time and by RULE was over. The rule may be poorly written but the way it is written is how we must accept it. There should have not been any more plays run.
Victories and losses are vacated all the time by the NCAA. Spirit of the law is very gray...
Victories and losses are vacated all the time by the NCAA. Spirit of the law is very gray...
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:25 pm to LCA131
Yes
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:26 pm to LCA131
quote:
Victories and losses are vacated all the time by the NCAA.
In real time? When it matters?
Usually 10-20 years later, when memories have been solidified, champions crowned and adored for years...complacency and nobody cares and it's seen as a joke by the public.
NCAA ancient retro-justice doesn't help OSU now.
I've never seen a college football game or season vacated by the NCAA the year it happened.
NCAA is like an old witch that just comes back to haunt schools years later after everyone who apparently offended is long gone and the public has moved on and doesn't give a crap. Look at the Fab 5 in basketball...nobody cared.
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:32 pm to gumbeaux
yes
I am a firm believer that if it decides the outcome then the last play of the game should be called correcty.
no one outside the winning team fan base would complain.
Okie lite was jobbed.
fix it.
I am a firm believer that if it decides the outcome then the last play of the game should be called correcty.
no one outside the winning team fan base would complain.
Okie lite was jobbed.
fix it.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:33 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
No and no.
Maybe it is time. They want everyone to think it is all on the up-and-up...Take action now.
Maybe it is time. They want everyone to think it is all on the up-and-up...Take action now.
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