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Spinoff Thread -- Handgun Stopping Power
Posted on 3/22/16 at 9:08 am
Posted on 3/22/16 at 9:08 am
The recent "semi-epic" (and all too common) thread on "9 vs. 40" contained some good info. But some of that info seemed to be obscured by the myriad opinions that were tossed around.
So I wanted to add the following in a separate thread. I didn't dream this stuff up -- it comes from some pretty authoritative sources.
The concept of handgun stopping power is exaggerated in movies and on TV to the point that some people tend to think handguns emit "death rays," knocking attackers off their feet. We know intellectually (I hope) that this isn't true, but the "brainwashing" effect of TV & movies is still pretty powerful. So ........
1. First point: Handguns chambered in the common self-defense calibers, loaded with SD ammo, are pretty equal in terms of "stopping power." Cartridges like 9mm are loaded pretty "hot" with really well designed bullets, to ensure that the bullet penetrates deeply enough to reach vital organs. Cartridges like .40 or .357 SIG are "downloaded" a bit to ensure that their well-designed bullets don't over-penetrate. All of them just drill holes in bad guys.
2. Second point: Quote from Dr. Vincent DiMaio, noted pathologist and author of the medical textbook Gunshot Wounds,) --- "Stopping power comes from where you hit the person and how many times you can hit them.” This guy (40 years of experience as a medical examiner, author of four textbooks) knows this stuff - caliber is relatively unimportant when comparing handguns. Accuracy and multiple hits are very important.
3. Final point: Watch this video on "knockdown power." LINK
So I wanted to add the following in a separate thread. I didn't dream this stuff up -- it comes from some pretty authoritative sources.
The concept of handgun stopping power is exaggerated in movies and on TV to the point that some people tend to think handguns emit "death rays," knocking attackers off their feet. We know intellectually (I hope) that this isn't true, but the "brainwashing" effect of TV & movies is still pretty powerful. So ........
1. First point: Handguns chambered in the common self-defense calibers, loaded with SD ammo, are pretty equal in terms of "stopping power." Cartridges like 9mm are loaded pretty "hot" with really well designed bullets, to ensure that the bullet penetrates deeply enough to reach vital organs. Cartridges like .40 or .357 SIG are "downloaded" a bit to ensure that their well-designed bullets don't over-penetrate. All of them just drill holes in bad guys.
2. Second point: Quote from Dr. Vincent DiMaio, noted pathologist and author of the medical textbook Gunshot Wounds,) --- "Stopping power comes from where you hit the person and how many times you can hit them.” This guy (40 years of experience as a medical examiner, author of four textbooks) knows this stuff - caliber is relatively unimportant when comparing handguns. Accuracy and multiple hits are very important.
3. Final point: Watch this video on "knockdown power." LINK
6
Posted on 3/22/16 at 9:10 am to dawg23
Good post, but I don't think we needed another thread on the subject.
Posted on 3/22/16 at 9:11 am to dawg23
I like to use 00 buckshot in my 12ga pistol.
Posted on 3/22/16 at 9:23 am to dawg23
quote:
Cartridges like 9mm are loaded pretty "hot" with really well designed bullets, to ensure that the bullet penetrates deeply enough to reach vital organs. Cartridges like .40 or .357 SIG are "downloaded" a bit to ensure that their well-designed bullets don't over-penetrate. All of them just drill holes in bad guys.
Where does this info come from? I would be interested in doing some reading.
The research I've done in watching independent testers on YouTube shows that you actually get less penetration with increased velocity since the bullet expands at a faster rate. But this also creates a better/worse (depending on how you look at it) permanent wound cavity. And while some may doubt the validity of multiple independent testers, they use the same standards as the FBI and some even take it further than that to use two or three different types of media as well.
Of course this is all dependent on a well-designed hollow point with a bonded jacket. If you get jacket separation and the lead core doesn't expand much, it can act as an FMJ.
But it's funny how people blindly believe Hollywood despite them knowing Hollywood lies in other arenas as well (medicine, law, crime scenes, etc.). Every time I see a person fly off his/her feet when shot with a handgun in a movie I cringe. Or the single shot to the chest of an attacker and he/she is immediately dead. People find it crazy when I tell them that the person shot would most likely still be very alive and the shooter would probably watch that person choke on his/her own blood after a while. Hollywood lies - shocking!
Posted on 3/22/16 at 12:37 pm to dawg23
quote:
"Stopping power comes from where you hit the person and how many times you can hit them.”
Hence why I'd rather 3 extra rounds and reduced recoil.
Posted on 3/22/16 at 1:49 pm to dawg23
Some folks may remember the George Temple incident several years ago. Temple took a .40 rd in the abdomen from the officer and another 4 shots from Perry Stevens Sig P220 .45 HST's. He didn't give up the fight and Perry put another rd right behind his ear. Toxocology reports came back negative though they suspected roid rage in the incident as Temple was a workout guru. This incident made me rethink my CCW choices.
LINK
LINK
quote:
According to Col. Greg Phares, "[Mr. Stevens] orders Mr. Temple to stop and get off the officer. The verbal commands are ignored and Mr. Stevens fires four shots, all of which struck Mr. Temple." Perry Stevens fired four shots into Temple's torso. Officer Harrison had already fired one shot into Temple's abdomen. With Temple still struggling with the officer, Perry continued to advance toward the scuffle. "He again orders Mr. Temple to stop what he was doing and get off the officer. Those commands are ignored and he fires a fifth shot and that hits his head. The incident is over with, and as you know, Mr. Temple is dead."
This post was edited on 3/22/16 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 3/22/16 at 2:36 pm to dawg23
The 357sig rounds I shoot sure as hell don't sound or feel "downloaded". It's painfully loud and I haven't even bought the ~1500fps rounds. Just the Speer Lawman 1350fps rounds are insane...and my gun handles them about as well as you can get. I don't think you want to push a 9mm bullet any faster than that out of a gun with a 3.5 inch barrel. I need to find some of the downloaded stuff to practice with...may take care of my yips.
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