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re: Defense Lawyers point of view for using your concealed firearm

Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:36 pm to
Posted by BFIV
Virginia
Member since Apr 2012
7800 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:36 pm to
quote:

I need something to report to the higher-ups why I am letting you go home instead of arresting you.



So, the reality is that if I shoot someone in self defense, and I invoke my right to remain silent until I speak with an attorney, you will arrest me?
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:43 pm to
quote:


So, the reality is that if I shoot someone in self defense, and I invoke my right to remain silent until I speak with an attorney, you will arrest me?


If there is no other witnesses and not enough evidence to show that it was clearly self defense.....yes.

If I'm stuck with one dead body and one shooter in the street with no witnesses and you are refusing to talk....you have painted me into a corner.

The only facts I have at that point is that you shot someone.
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:55 pm to
Part of self defense is being able to articulate your justification for shooting.

And usually you can provide that initially and avoid being arrested.

Or you can be arrested and provide that justification at a later date.
Posted by VetteGuy
Member since Feb 2008
28747 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:57 pm to
Some jurisdictions are gonna arrest you, no matter what.

That's a fact.
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:01 pm to
quote:

Some jurisdictions are gonna arrest you, no matter what.


True and I completely disagree with that.

But again, I will give the advice that being able to provide justification from the beginning and sticking to your story gives you more credibility in the DA and Grand Jury's eyes.
Posted by BFIV
Virginia
Member since Apr 2012
7800 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:09 pm to
quote:

If I'm stuck with one dead body and one shooter in the street with no witnesses and you are refusing to talk....you have painted me into a corner.


Not trying to be a smart aleck, but, quite honestly, I really believe I would rather paint you in a corner temporarily than paint myself in a corner permanently by saying something that could/would be twisted out of context by some prosecutor. Their sole job is to put folks in jail, not keep them out of jail. More prosecutions and convictions help them get re-elected. And even if you choose to NOT arrest, my understanding is that a grand jury will still meet and possibly indict me or not indict me, whether you arrest me on the spot or not? And possibly, how well I know the investigating officer and commonwealth attorney here in Virginia would have a bearing on whether I gave an immediate statement or not. I know the sheriff and some of the deputies, commonwealth attorney, and some of the state troopers here and I have credibility with all of them. That would not be the case outside of my home area. I've only had to hold a handgun on someone just once in my life and the perpetrator didn't even know it. Had he reached into my vehicle and tried to harm me or my 5 year old grandson, I would have pulled the trigger. I told this to the sheriff, state troopers, and the commonwealth attorney. The perp got 4 years for what he did. But to make a long story short, the sheriff, state troopers, and the commonwealth attorney all told me what I already knew: that I have a right to protect myself.
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:10 pm to
Also, you can terminate the interview whenever you feel uncomfortable about the line of questioning.

What I always tell family members is as long as it questioning involving basic facts and what not...answer them.

When the interview becomes accusatory...that is when you should consider an attorney.
Posted by BFIV
Virginia
Member since Apr 2012
7800 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:19 pm to
quote:

you can terminate the interview whenever you feel uncomfortable about the line of questioning.


That's precisely the point that a lot of us have mentioned here. Any interview or questioning by the police over anything, from a traffic violation, tail light burned out, or shooting someone in self defense is uncomfortable.

quote:

When the interview becomes accusatory...that is when you should consider an attorney.


To me, the whole interview would be accusatory. Why else have the interview? And realistically, not being a lawyer or LEO, and being in a very stressful situation, I may not be able to sufficiently determine if the interview has become accusatory. Not sure what that means even now when I'm not stressed out and haven't shot someone in self defense...
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:19 pm to
If that is what you feel you need to do...then that's fine.

In my experience though....The 1st chance I get....this is what happened, this was my justification, and its not gonna change. An open book nothing to hide.

I'm gonna give the investigators everything they need so they can close the case quickly and move on. Because I am confident in my ability to make the choice to use lethal force.
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:27 pm to
lol.

You will know when it becomes accusatory. Basically the investigators will start claiming inconsistencies in your story and/or claim that you are not being honest.

Posted by BFIV
Virginia
Member since Apr 2012
7800 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:30 pm to
quote:

Because I am confident in my ability to make the choice to use lethal force.



As am I. I'm not confident in an overzealous, or dishonest prosecutor trying to hang my scalp on his belt for the sake of getting votes, though. And I'm not confident, either, in all LEO's committment to protect and serve. Just like with any profession, there are good ones and there are bad ones. You certainly sound like one of the good guys. Nevertheless, you have a job to do. We understand that. And just as the commonwealth attorney told me: "You have a right to protect yourself.", I interpret that to mean that I have a right to protect myself both at the time of the incident and afterwards, during the legal battle. I am just so thankful the perp had the good sense to back away and not force me to shoot. I felt then, and I feel now, that The Good Lord had a hand in that.
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:41 pm to
quote:

As am I. I'm not confident in an overzealous, or dishonest prosecutor trying to hang my scalp on his belt for the sake of getting votes, though


As an investigator, you co-operating with me...gives you credibility and makes me more apt to believe you and disagree with the prosecutor.

quote:

And I'm not confident, either, in all LEO's committment to protect and serve. Just like with any profession, there are good ones and there are bad ones.


True...again my opinion is let me get my statement documented from the beginning and it not change to lend me credibility. Good idea to ask that it be recorded or better yet give a written statement. That way it is my statements shaping the story instead of the shitty officer's.

If you remain silent, it makes it easier for him/her to shape the story the way he wants to portray it in the beginning. You basically are giving him/her a head start.

I would rather it be....here is my statement and it isn't changing. Documented from the get go.
This post was edited on 2/15/16 at 11:42 pm
Posted by BFIV
Virginia
Member since Apr 2012
7800 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:54 pm to
quote:

again my opinion is let me get my statement documented from the beginning and it not change to lend me credibility. Good idea to ask that it be recorded or better yet give a written statement. That way it is my statements shaping the story instead of the shitty officer's.

If you remain silent, it makes it easier for him/her to shape the story the way he wants to portray it in the beginning. You basically are giving him/her a head start.

I would rather it be....here is my statement and it isn't changing. Documented from the get go.




Good points. Thanks!
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/16/16 at 12:03 am to
The main thing is this....

Its better to be judged by 12 (jurors) than carried by 6 (pallbearers).

When your life is endangered you do what you have to do to ensure your safety 1st and foremost and worry about the legal issues afterwards.
This post was edited on 2/16/16 at 12:04 am
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11927 posts
Posted on 2/16/16 at 5:23 am to
quote:

Typically within 20-40 minutes any hysteria if any has passed


This is precisely what I'm saying. I don't mean you won't be able to even function remotely for hours on end. I'm saying it will likely be overwhelming immediately after and that little window is not a good time to give a detailed statement.
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
71709 posts
Posted on 2/16/16 at 7:36 am to
quote:

While I found the article to be a "good read", it seemed to be very self-serving. Think of this, if you are so calmly able to analyze the situation to determine if using your weapon is necessary, as the author suggests, shouldn't you be able to just as calmly explain yourself to the officer? Again, don't be an idiot, don't say more than you need to, but explaining yourself to the responding officer doesn't seem to be a horrible idea.



Never speak to the police when you may be a suspect.
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
71709 posts
Posted on 2/16/16 at 7:39 am to
Not speaking is literally the only advantage you have in that room with the policeman during an interview. Why would I piss that away to someone that is legally able to lie to me, just to give a statement that can be used against me in the court of law?
Posted by Rickety Cricket
Premium Member
Member since Aug 2007
46883 posts
Posted on 2/16/16 at 7:51 am to
quote:

If you haven't done anything wrong you should always provide the investigator a statement. Give the investigator something to work with.

The absolute worst advice one could receive, and of course it comes from a cop.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
135222 posts
Posted on 2/16/16 at 7:56 am to
quote:

As an investigator, someone who refuses to give any statement or answer questions is gonna instantly lose credibility with me. Again, why do you need an attorney to tell you to tell the truth?

Wait, so you're telling me that if someone freely gives you a statement, everything is ok, but if they immediately lawyer up and plead the 5th you automatically think they're guilty of something nefarious? That's kinda scary that you're ignoring these people's Constitutional rights.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
81962 posts
Posted on 2/16/16 at 8:31 am to
quote:

Are you referring to Alx? He was acting immature and I called it like I saw it.

bullshite. You just don't like where I'm going because it doesn't fit your gun culture dogma.
quote:

it seems the best course of action is to make an initial statement
Progress.
quote:

My original thinking was to be completely silent (which is still sometimes the best advice) but hearing from others (especially a highly respected source like MA) it seems this is the best course of action.
Apology accepted.
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