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re: Defense Lawyers point of view for using your concealed firearm
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:27 pm to bapple
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:27 pm to bapple
quote:
If you are not accustomed to regularly shooting a living human being, when you are forced to, you will be absolutely hysterical.
I don't think I'd be hysterical just based on past situations I've been in.
That said, I'm sure I'd be shook up some and in no condition to have an open convo with people who aren't my fiends.
I base this on episode that happened to me a few weeks ago.
I was rear-ended on the Causeway while I was driving 65. The guy that hit me was racing or having an altercation with some guy in a truck and they literally flew up behind me. I was in the right lane, the truck was in the left. The guy that hit me then banged into the right side guardrail. I kept my car straight, kept it gathered up, switched lanes and got to a crossover. I called 911 and had a tough time keeping my composure (anger, shock, etc). I was able to accurately identify the car that hit me and the truck he was racing.
I tell y'all this b/c I think I drive pretty well, I handled the car fine and it was still a surprising event. I never had the slightest issue with keeping the car under control, b/c I've been in tighter spots before.
Dealing with the very unprofessional Causeway police was no picnic. They did catch the guy that hit me and arrested him for DWI. They didn't get the truck.
Going through that, if I had to use a firearm in a defensive manner (never having done that before), I'm calling my lawyer and they can arrest me if they want.
0
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:29 pm to rattlebucket
1. Bad cops are bad cops. Cooperating isn't gonna make much difference.
2. You are more likely to not be charged if you cooperate.
3. Which is why you give a written statement and/or recorded statement. How do inaccurately record a statement.
Not from cooperating. I have seen suspects more often spend a lot of money on attorney fees only to be told to go tell the truth. Had they told the truth in the beginning they would have saved a lot of time and grief.
2. You are more likely to not be charged if you cooperate.
3. Which is why you give a written statement and/or recorded statement. How do inaccurately record a statement.
Not from cooperating. I have seen suspects more often spend a lot of money on attorney fees only to be told to go tell the truth. Had they told the truth in the beginning they would have saved a lot of time and grief.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:32 pm to theenemy
quote:
2. You are more likely to not be charged if you cooperate.
I would intend to fully cooperate, but if they can't wait an hour for my attorney to get there, they can do what they want. (shrugs)
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:38 pm to diat150
quote:
someone involved in a incident, may make a statement that incriminates them. heck, it may not even be true what they say, the mind will fill in the blanks in traumatic situations
No the mind perceives what it perceives. That is what is needed. Perception is the most important thing in justification.
Your mind and outside influence fills in the blanks over time. That is why it lessens your credibility if you refuse to cooperate in the beginning.
quote:
who cares? its going to be up to the da and or a jury.
And who do you thinks sits down with the DA and dicusses whether or not it was justified.
During the Grand Jury who do you think answers the jurors questions? And explains the evidence?
This post was edited on 2/15/16 at 6:40 pm
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:45 pm to theenemy
I think this guy presents, by far, the best advice on the subject:
I think Massad Ayoob provides the best advice here. In his work as a police officer, prosecutor, and expert witness, he has seen it all and knows what works. His suggestions in The Armed Citizens Legal Network Journal are as follows:
Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Checklist
1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.”
2. Tell responding officers, “I will sign a complaint.”
3. Point out pertinent evidence.
4. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.
5. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here.
- See more at: LINK
I think Massad Ayoob provides the best advice here. In his work as a police officer, prosecutor, and expert witness, he has seen it all and knows what works. His suggestions in The Armed Citizens Legal Network Journal are as follows:
Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Checklist
1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.”
2. Tell responding officers, “I will sign a complaint.”
3. Point out pertinent evidence.
4. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.
5. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here.
- See more at: LINK
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:53 pm to VetteGuy
I agree. Main thing is you want to show that you are willing to cooperate.
And as an investigator, I don't mind you speaking with an attorney. As long as you can give me a statement before it is tainted by outside influence.
And as an investigator, I don't mind you speaking with an attorney. As long as you can give me a statement before it is tainted by outside influence.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:58 pm to VetteGuy
Having your attorney come out and yall working with the investigators is cooperating.
Refusing to answer any questions until a week later when your attorney is available or after you have shopped around is not cooperating.
Refusing to answer any questions until a week later when your attorney is available or after you have shopped around is not cooperating.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 6:59 pm to theenemy
quote:
I don't mind you speaking with an attorney. As long as you can give me a statement before it is tainted by outside influence.
So exercising the fifth amendment makes you treat an investigation differently? A good attorney would have a field day with you.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:02 pm to theenemy
Agreed. It would be quick.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:06 pm to rattlebucket
quote:
So exercising the fifth amendment makes you treat an investigation differently?
It goes back to the credibilty.
Is that your true statement or is that the statement you have fabricated over time.
You have the right not to incriminate.
As an investigator, I have the right to be suspicious of your statement.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:13 pm to theenemy
Look, I understand what you are getting at. I was being questioned on a 2nd degree murder trial as part of the jury pool if it would bother me that the defendent chose not to testify. At the time and 25 yrs old, I made the statement to the judge that "if I were in the defendants shoes I would testify....I mean, if you arent guilty what do you have to hide"?
The judge jumped my case and said by law I couldnt hold that against said defendant. I wasnt selected. I guess the attnys saw me as a problem.
Then I grew up a few years and realized this corrupt world and how risk plays into most things.
The judge jumped my case and said by law I couldnt hold that against said defendant. I wasnt selected. I guess the attnys saw me as a problem.
Then I grew up a few years and realized this corrupt world and how risk plays into most things.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:14 pm to rattlebucket
quote:
So exercising the fifth amendment makes you treat an investigation differently?
I mean....Do you really expect me to go to the DA and Grand Jury and vouch for you when you want even answer my questions?
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:22 pm to theenemy
quote:
i mean....Do you really expect me to go to the DA and Grand Jury and vouch for you when you want even answer my questions?
If I knew you, yes. I dont know if you are rogue or not. Again, I assess risk differently than what you may want me to.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:25 pm to theenemy
To be honest, while I would hope the police wouldn't be looking to throw me under the bus, I would be just as concerned as to how my words would be interpreted in the civil suit that is sure to follow.
Thus, there absolutely will be no statement until my attorney can advise me.
This is just good common sense.
Thus, there absolutely will be no statement until my attorney can advise me.
This is just good common sense.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:33 pm to rattlebucket
quote:
gain, I assess risk differently than what you may want me to.
I was raised to tell the truth regardless. Again, I don't need an attorney to tell me when telling the truth is in my best interest. Too me, the truth is always in my best interest.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:37 pm to VetteGuy
quote:
Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Checklist
1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.”
2. Tell responding officers, “I will sign a complaint.”
3. Point out pertinent evidence.
4. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.
5. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here.
When I took Ayoob's MAG40 class a few years ago, part of Item #1 was to point out what Ayoob called "the precipitating event."
"That dude was trying to (kill, cut, stab, whatever) me with a (pistol, machete, knife, whatever). The only way I could stop him was to (shoot, stab, bludgeon, whatever) him.
As Vetteguy has pointed out, Ayoob isn't a proponent of "Say nothing until my lawyer gets there." Neither is Clint Smith.
Of course most people don't have an attorney on speed dial. The quicker your attorney can be there, the less reason there is to say a lot to the cops.
I tell people in my classes that the real answer (Do you say nothing without your lawyer present, or do you at least tell the cops the "bare minimum" ?) is ........... Follow whatever advice your lawyer gave you (back when you interviewed him and decided that he would be your "go to" attorney). Everybody should (a) have an attorney and (b) do what he has instructed you to do.
ETA: IANAL Just my $.02 worth.
This post was edited on 2/15/16 at 7:38 pm
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:41 pm to theenemy
Im not advocating to lie. Many innocent people have been sentenced to prison for telling the truth when they shouldve let a professional help guide them through this process. You do it all the time. This is a one time event for people.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:42 pm to theenemy
To add, most people, whether by nervousness or intimidation, say way, way too much.
Giving the basics as I showed in the other post is fine, I just wouldn't go into a ton of detail or say anything beyond that.
The investigators should be more than fine with my approach.
Giving the basics as I showed in the other post is fine, I just wouldn't go into a ton of detail or say anything beyond that.
The investigators should be more than fine with my approach.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:50 pm to dawg23
quote:
When I took Ayoob's MAG40 class a few years ago, part of Item #1 was to point out what Ayoob called "the precipitating event."
"That dude was trying to (kill, cut, stab, whatever) me with a (pistol, machete, knife, whatever). The only way I could stop him was to (shoot, stab, bludgeon, whatever) him.
This.
Give the investigator a basic statement.
We can get into the details later but as an investigator I just want the basic summary of events and what you perceived and why you justified it before it gets tainted by outside influence.
This post was edited on 2/15/16 at 7:54 pm
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:53 pm to theenemy
Also, in this instance, your handle isn't helping things.
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