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Posted on 5/15/15 at 8:16 am to Roger Klarvin
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Posted on 5/15/15 at 8:22 am to Roger Klarvin
i disagree
it was predictable and all that for the genre. we knew the bossman had something up his sleeve about time would "fall in love" with her
from the get go, we knew there would be some sort of reveal, an attempt to free the AI, and a revenge plot by the AI
that's not necessarily terrible, as the execution and journey was done very well, but the fact still remains
it was predictable and all that for the genre. we knew the bossman had something up his sleeve about time would "fall in love" with her
from the get go, we knew there would be some sort of reveal, an attempt to free the AI, and a revenge plot by the AI
that's not necessarily terrible, as the execution and journey was done very well, but the fact still remains
Posted on 5/15/15 at 8:23 am to Roger Klarvin
Different strokes. I think it has predictable setups but the script just throws you off the scent.
During conversation 2 or 3, in sitting there thinking...does this idiot know people lie to get things they want? But for whatever reason the thought was fleeting
Same with kyoko, has to be an AI, but then you see her eavesdropping as if she understands English and you understand she's from an impoverished continent where she might behave slavelike in her job performance
I felt like the misdirection was great, but without that it may have been very predictable. As it happened right until each revelation I was weighing each option unsure of what is true. Is Caleb the AI being tested? It creates enough doubt for each moment and moves along quite well so that you don't spend too much time on any one thought. It was pretty engrossing
I loved all of the shots with reflections, the scene where Nathan and Caleb are climbing next to that waterfall. I may have to agree with you that anyone who found this one shallow may be a bit of a derp, or for whatever reason these moments didn't turn their brain on in the way that it should, so again different strokes
During conversation 2 or 3, in sitting there thinking...does this idiot know people lie to get things they want? But for whatever reason the thought was fleeting
Same with kyoko, has to be an AI, but then you see her eavesdropping as if she understands English and you understand she's from an impoverished continent where she might behave slavelike in her job performance
I felt like the misdirection was great, but without that it may have been very predictable. As it happened right until each revelation I was weighing each option unsure of what is true. Is Caleb the AI being tested? It creates enough doubt for each moment and moves along quite well so that you don't spend too much time on any one thought. It was pretty engrossing
I loved all of the shots with reflections, the scene where Nathan and Caleb are climbing next to that waterfall. I may have to agree with you that anyone who found this one shallow may be a bit of a derp, or for whatever reason these moments didn't turn their brain on in the way that it should, so again different strokes
This post was edited on 5/15/15 at 8:26 am
Posted on 5/15/15 at 8:29 am to SlowFlowPro
None of those are end games though
Caleb being emotionally retarded and lonely falling in love with an AI, expected
But the payoff is that she's totally using him
We knew the AI would try and get free,
We didn't know if she would succeed. More importantly, we don't fully know the ramifications of her escape, but the potential is frightening.
Caleb being emotionally retarded and lonely falling in love with an AI, expected
But the payoff is that she's totally using him
We knew the AI would try and get free,
We didn't know if she would succeed. More importantly, we don't fully know the ramifications of her escape, but the potential is frightening.
Posted on 5/15/15 at 8:47 am to DelU249
well the ultimate test of the Turing test is self preservation. i don't know if that's stated, but i will tell you that it is. only when a being realizes that it does exist and that it has sentience will be when it realizes that it can lose this existence. taking steps to preserve your "self" is the signal of sentience.
while i enjoyed the 2 sets of conversations, in my mind that debate was already settled. the end-game led to the correct payoff (in my head), so it was good
now, an interesting side discussion is about the "god" angle. these movies always love to have the creator believe/act like a god. however, if you create an advanced being that may become more advanced than you, you have created your own gods.
these movies kind of handle the "god" issue with "self preservation", like ex machina. however some do handle the "god" issue like gods...2001 does it. the most accessible version is the Terminator universe
if you want an expansive canvas to delve into psychological sci fi, write a philosophical/religious story set in a "Terminator" post apocalyptic reality. you could stretch that into a series likely.
while i enjoyed the 2 sets of conversations, in my mind that debate was already settled. the end-game led to the correct payoff (in my head), so it was good
now, an interesting side discussion is about the "god" angle. these movies always love to have the creator believe/act like a god. however, if you create an advanced being that may become more advanced than you, you have created your own gods.
these movies kind of handle the "god" issue with "self preservation", like ex machina. however some do handle the "god" issue like gods...2001 does it. the most accessible version is the Terminator universe
if you want an expansive canvas to delve into psychological sci fi, write a philosophical/religious story set in a "Terminator" post apocalyptic reality. you could stretch that into a series likely.
Posted on 5/15/15 at 9:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I think this movie succeeded where Prometheus hoped to (not that Prometheus sucked) It was all very subdued so it was satisfying
these movies always love to have the creator believe/act like a god. however, if you create an advanced being that may become more advanced than you, you have created your own gods
quote:they didn't need to, self preservation is kind of the key to life. Ava is curious as to what happens, and she is afraid that it is death. Caleb is so fricking stupid though, clearly this is something of a blind study, and there is a lot he doesn't know (while Nathan knows everything), he should have told Nathan about the power failure and ava's warning
self preservation
but again, this is what I like about the movie...he's too nerdy and tech oriented, and that's what makes him a moron, while Nathan is the super google (bluebook) genius who is very normal and has more of a basic human touch to him
This post was edited on 5/15/15 at 9:05 am
Posted on 5/15/15 at 9:04 am to SlowFlowPro
I will say that is the one predictable element of the movie, is that I understood that caleb was ignorant of what the test was well before he did
maybe it was supposed to be that way; however, the movie does a great job of creating doubt. every story has been done in some form or another, we've heard it all, but we need doubt to feel tension, and ex machina puts enough out there to make you question everything
maybe it was supposed to be that way; however, the movie does a great job of creating doubt. every story has been done in some form or another, we've heard it all, but we need doubt to feel tension, and ex machina puts enough out there to make you question everything
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
from the get go, we knew there would be some sort of reveal, an attempt to free the AI, and a revenge plot by the AI
Sort of, but not really. I was thinking/hoping that she and Caleb would leave there together after killing Nathan. Sure Nathan going down is basic rules of the narrative, but I was hoping Ava had achieved some degree of humanity to her, but she turned out to be ruthless as frick. I don't think her ruthlessness was predictable and you just assumed that Nathan was lying about her, but that sadly wasn't the case.
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:09 am to DelU249
quote:
Same with kyoko, has to be an AI, but then you see her eavesdropping as if she understands English and you understand she's from an impoverished continent where she might behave slavelike in her job performance
I just didn't buy for a second she wasn't an android of some type. The language thing doesn't make any sense for anyone who knows anything about learning language. People pick up on it rather quickly, especially when you're entirely surrounded by it. Nathan is smart enough to know this, and really Caleb should have been as well.
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:13 am to DelU249
quote:
Nathan is the super google (bluebook) genius who is very normal and has more of a basic human touch to him
Nathan isn't normal. He's a borderline psychopath who is an intense recluse and a master at manipulation. If you reduced Nathan's IQ by 60 points and he still had the same personality, he'd be weird as shite.
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:13 am to OMLandshark
it's not just that. she would have responded to his assholery with SOME kind of verbal response
*ETA: that reminds me of the biggest flaw in the movie. it is never really established that nathan was worthy of being killed by his robots
that scene was cool but a serious "movie moment"
*ETA: that reminds me of the biggest flaw in the movie. it is never really established that nathan was worthy of being killed by his robots
that scene was cool but a serious "movie moment"
This post was edited on 5/15/15 at 10:15 am
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:21 am to constant cough
quote:
Probably watch it in a few hours if I find the quality up to scratch if not I'll wait for a bluray release.
Do I have awesome timing or what? I wake up this morning to find a bluray release! I guess I'll have to watch it tonight now.
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:22 am to OMLandshark
I don't think he's a psychopath at all
To create Ava or AI period took a pretty deep understanding of what it is to be human. Moreover, when I say "normal", I mean in the way he communicates
He asks Caleb "how does she make you FEEL?"
Celebs first response is techno jargon, and these responses frustrate Nathan and he's very straightforward in telling him what he wants to hear and cutting through (and also creating) awkwardness
Psychopathy suggests he's socially stunted, but that can't be. Also, it's pretty clear that Caleb is lacking emotional intelligence
To create Ava or AI period took a pretty deep understanding of what it is to be human. Moreover, when I say "normal", I mean in the way he communicates
He asks Caleb "how does she make you FEEL?"
Celebs first response is techno jargon, and these responses frustrate Nathan and he's very straightforward in telling him what he wants to hear and cutting through (and also creating) awkwardness
Psychopathy suggests he's socially stunted, but that can't be. Also, it's pretty clear that Caleb is lacking emotional intelligence
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:26 am to DelU249
Nathan just doesn't put up with bullshite jargon. Just because he is straight forward and knows how to ask questions he wants/needs the answers to doesn't mean he's not awkward.
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:32 am to OMLandshark
He doesn't put up with it because it's not important. He needs to know that Ava is eliciting an emotional response from him and what it is
He is testing to see whether or not he has created artificial consciousness, a human for all intents and purposes.
So none of that technical stuff is important
Art rather than science. the questions that need to be answered are more philosophical than scientific
And he didn't choose Caleb for anything other reason other than he was capable of being manipulated (by Ava)
He is testing to see whether or not he has created artificial consciousness, a human for all intents and purposes.
So none of that technical stuff is important
Art rather than science. the questions that need to be answered are more philosophical than scientific
And he didn't choose Caleb for anything other reason other than he was capable of being manipulated (by Ava)
This post was edited on 5/15/15 at 10:42 am
Posted on 5/15/15 at 10:55 am to DelU249
quote:
He doesn't put up with it because it's not important. He needs to know that Ava is eliciting an emotional response from him and what it is
He is testing to see whether or not he has created artificial consciousness, a human for all intents and purposes.
So none of that technical stuff is important
Art rather than science. the questions that need to be answered are more philosophical than scientific
And he didn't choose Caleb for anything other reason other than he was capable of being manipulated (by Ava)
But none of this points to the fact that he's not an awkward sociopath. Awkwardness doesn't mean you ramble about pointless crap.
Posted on 5/15/15 at 11:03 am to OMLandshark
the first scene the two are together, it is awkward because of caleb, and Nathan just cuts through the bullshite
the last one, because Nathan is teasing him, Nathan is letting it become awkward as he watches caleb freak out about the getting drunk. Caleb is the socially awkward of the two...IMO, it's a striking dichotomy.
Nathan being a sociopath is up for debate, though that would mean he lacked the emotional awareness and understanding to create an AI to begin with. Nathan is a cocksucker to be sure, a psychopath, I don't believe he is/was. Caleb was the one prepared to leave Nathan trapped inside to die...just saying
but that's what I love about movies with depth, they resonate in different ways for different people. it's by far the best film I've seen at the theaters in a while (although I enjoy dawn of the planet of the apes a lot more, this is the better film)
the last one, because Nathan is teasing him, Nathan is letting it become awkward as he watches caleb freak out about the getting drunk. Caleb is the socially awkward of the two...IMO, it's a striking dichotomy.
Nathan being a sociopath is up for debate, though that would mean he lacked the emotional awareness and understanding to create an AI to begin with. Nathan is a cocksucker to be sure, a psychopath, I don't believe he is/was. Caleb was the one prepared to leave Nathan trapped inside to die...just saying
but that's what I love about movies with depth, they resonate in different ways for different people. it's by far the best film I've seen at the theaters in a while (although I enjoy dawn of the planet of the apes a lot more, this is the better film)
This post was edited on 5/15/15 at 11:05 am
Posted on 5/15/15 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
On par with your point, it was lovely how they approached that "god thing" from the two characters' perspectives. Caleb was the appropriate quote machine and Nathan was the egocentric guy who took it as he was the god. 
AND I JUST HAD AN EPIPHANY!
The writer could have subconsciously planted ideas Caleb was a robot before the mirror/cutting scene! Caleb had all these perfect literary quotes! Who has all of that at the ready besides someone/thing with an immense database?!!!
AND I JUST HAD AN EPIPHANY!
The writer could have subconsciously planted ideas Caleb was a robot before the mirror/cutting scene! Caleb had all these perfect literary quotes! Who has all of that at the ready besides someone/thing with an immense database?!!!
This post was edited on 5/15/15 at 11:10 am
Posted on 5/15/15 at 11:16 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I was hoping Ava had achieved some degree of humanity to her, but she turned out to be ruthless as frick. I don't think her ruthlessness was predictable and you just assumed that Nathan was lying about her, but that sadly wasn't the case.
Not so much ruthlessness as indifference. Ava didn't leave Caleb locked away because she wanted him to suffer a cruel death; she left him because she didn't care. And because doing so would better ensure her own survival. IMO
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