- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Score Board
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- SEC Score Board
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Officer in Eric Garner case: I never used a choke hold
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:44 am to NC_Tigah
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:44 am to NC_Tigah
quote:From your link:
LINK
Now then.
quote:Yes. He didn't actually break his neck.
The forbidden chokehold used by a cop to take down a Staten Island man in a deadly encounter Thursday did not damage his windpipe or neck bones, sources said.
From what I recall of a medical professional who actually read the report (has it been posted anywhere?) The damage was caused by compression of the veins in the neck causing his head to "fill" with blood and caused various hemorrhages and other damage.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:48 am to mmcgrath
quote:
caused various hemorrhages
In his brain? I haven't seen that anywhere. Link?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:48 am to Five0
quote:Maybe so. But the troubling similarities between Luis Rodriguez and Garner should AT THE LEAST force PDs to incorporate safety training. Both men died horrible deaths. Both were unnecessary. Both men continued to be subdued after loss of consciousness. Both situations should entail PD liability, if not criminal, then civil. No one should be killed for simply not producing ID or buying single cigarettes.
And this wins the internet for the day.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:54 am to mmcgrath
quote:
The damage was caused by compression of the veins in the neck causing his head to "fill" with blood and caused various hemorrhages and other damage.
So when you choke someone for 13 seconds they hemorrhage from their brain and die? Wow I would've thought the body could handle a little more trauma than that but I guess not. Seems like murderers should just do this instead of stabbing people, a lot easier and not as messy.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 8:55 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:54 am to mmcgrath
quote:Acute compression of venous outflow would not normally be associated with causing "hemorrhages and other damage".
The damage was caused by compression of the veins in the neck causing his head to "fill" with blood and caused various hemorrhages and other damage
Was that a Shawn Parcells' report by chance.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:01 am to Tigerstudent08
quote:Exactly.
So when you choke someone for 13 seconds they hemorrhage from their brain and die?
A "choke out" hold is performed through application of bilateral carotid compression. I has the same effect as excessive negative G forces on a fighter pilot . . . immediate loss of consciousness.
It is result of acutely reduced cerebral blood flow, not the reverse, and not of venous stasis.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:29 am to mmcgrath
quote:They cited petechiae, not cerebral hemorrhage, and were almost certainly referencing Garner's eyes, not his brain. Straining akin to Valsalva during chest compression could produce the same finding btw. Neither cause would be lethal, or even likely render the victim unconscious.
In his brain? I haven't seen that anywhere. Link?
Found it. LINK The experts were Forensic Scientist Lawrence Kobilinsky and Emergency Room Physician Dr. Sampson Davis.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:30 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:38 am to NC_Tigah
quote:I never said that the damage was in his brain. I was only describing the blood flow. There was damage as a result of the chokehold.
They cited petechiae, not cerebral hemorrhage, and were almost certainly referencing Garner's eyes, not his brain.
quote:The two medical professionals in the interview disagree with you. They even stated that the chest compressions could stop breathing and kill someone when when perfectly healthy.
Straining akin to Valsalva during chest compression could produce the same finding btw. Neither cause would be lethal, or even likely render the victim unconscious.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:43 am to mmcgrath
quote:
They even stated that the chest compressions could stop breathing and kill someone when when perfectly healthy.
Right. We should just ask people more nicely when they resist arrest. "Pretty please!!"
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:47 am to mmcgrath
quote:Good lord mmcgrath, you're going to do this yet again?
The two medical professionals in the interview disagree with you
Of course they don't disagree. They are citing a possible explanation. I can tell you flat out, if Cooper had asked whether a sudden increase in intrathoracic and/or abdominal pressure could have caused petechiae, they would have both answered "yes". It's basic stuff.
quote:As have I.
They even stated that the chest compressions could stop breathing and kill someone
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:50 am to the808bass
Air choke or blood choke. Blood choke is more effective
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:51 am to NC_Tigah
My response was to what I perceived as an active attempt to remove personal bias and think critically about a presented incident AFTER independently verifying facts.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:52 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:55 am to Five0
quote:Based on that, did you disagree with the response?
My response was to what I perceived as an active attempt to remove personal bias and think critically about a presented incident AFTER independently verifying facts.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:59 am to NC_Tigah
Are you referring to your response here?
quote:
Maybe so. But the troubling similarities between Luis Rodriguez and Garner should AT THE LEAST force PDs to incorporate safety training. Both men died horrible deaths. Both were unnecessary. Both men continued to be subdued after loss of consciousness. Both situations should entail PD liability, if not criminal, then civil. No one should be killed for simply not producing ID or buying single cigarettes.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:16 am to NC_Tigah
I agree that any incident that leads to death our serious injury should be investigated.
I agree that both deaths were unnecessary.
Not sure on this. If you fight the lawful detention arrest you are getting cuffed. To long to get into using my phone.
In these situations no criminal liability. Civil? Depends on a lot of variables that I doubt anyone on here can verify at the moment. That is for the judicial process.
Both persons you mentioned determined the level of force used against them. Dealing with an a-hole cop? Comply. In a couple of years find an attorney with my background and own him and more importantly his agency. That is how you fight police misconduct.
I agree that both deaths were unnecessary.
quote:
Both men continued to be subdued after loss of consciousness
Not sure on this. If you fight the lawful detention arrest you are getting cuffed. To long to get into using my phone.
quote:
Both situations should entail PD liability, if not criminal, then civil.
In these situations no criminal liability. Civil? Depends on a lot of variables that I doubt anyone on here can verify at the moment. That is for the judicial process.
quote:
No one should be killed for simply not producing ID or buying single cigarettes.
Both persons you mentioned determined the level of force used against them. Dealing with an a-hole cop? Comply. In a couple of years find an attorney with my background and own him and more importantly his agency. That is how you fight police misconduct.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:22 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
They even stated that the chest compressions could stop breathing and kill someone
quote:And yet above you stated "Neither cause would be lethal" when referring to chest compressions and presumably pressure on the neck.
As have I.
I think we are in agreement that the methods the NYPD used during the arrest were unnecessary and led to the death of Garner.
The doctors in the video said that it was compression of the neck (from direct pressure and forced positioning of the head) in addition to chest compressions were the primary causes of death and were helped along by a number of other contributing factors.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:34 am to mmcgrath
quote:
the methods the NYPD used during the arrest
Were brought on by Garner's actions.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:37 am to the808bass
quote:
Once the settlement happens, it will probably get one.
this is the thing, a big settlement is going to happen. And that to me is an admission of guilt. if you pay a few million to someone for killing them, its pretty yeah I fricked up big time.
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News