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The Internal Problem of QB Development
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:01 am
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:01 am
What do we know about Les Miles and turnovers?
It’s pretty much common knowledge that the standard punishment for fumbling is the bench.
How about interceptions?
Well, we know Jarrett Lee threw a bunch of pick-6’s in 2008, and then never started again until Les had no other choice besides a brand-new Zach Mettenberger in 2011.
We know Les replaced Lee the first chance he got in 2011 after throwing a couple of picks against Alabama (not saying that was a bad decision. Jefferson’s running won LSU that game.)
We can’t really make any assumptions about Mettenberger’s picks in 2012 or 2013 because he was far and away the best option, regardless.
We know Harris got banished again after throwing one pass and getting intercepted against Kentucky.
So here’s what I think the problem is…
If this is how turnovers are handled in games, why do we have any reason to believe that turnovers are handled any differently in practice?
Haven’t we always wondered why certain RB’s light it up one game, and then don’t start or barely get any carries in the next game? Could this be the explanation? Turning it over in practice?
Fumble or throw picks in practice and down the depth chart you go….
Wouldn’t this explain all the QB’s transferring out of LSU recently? Makes sense to me. It’s pretty obvious that, other than Mett, LSU has not had any stud QB’s since 2007 that would make younger QB's say "dang, I'm never gonna start over these guys."
Rob Bolden. Stephen Rivers. Hayden Rettig.
So what’s the problem? If those QB’s weren’t performing well, then good riddance, right?
Well, if anyone has ever played QB or is familiar with the mentality of the QB position, they would know that it requires a completely different mindset. It almost requires a mentality of cockiness. Not the bad kind of cockiness, but a level of confidence that nearly borders on cockiness. Because a QB has to break the huddle knowing that he’s going to make a great throw. He has to be confident enough to believe the opposing defense can’t stop him.
Does a culture of getting benched or demoted on the depth chart because of turnovers seem conducive to that type of mentality? To me, it’s dangerous, and not how you want to develop your QB’s, especially your younger QB’s. ESPECIALLY YOUR YOUNGER QBs IN PRACTICE!
Doesn’t this explain the constant worried looks on Jordan Jefferson and Anthony Jennings faces? Doesn’t it explain the inability to make quick and confident decisions with the football? Our QB’s aren’t out there trying to make plays. They’re out there trying not to make mistakes.
My personal opinion is that Les prefers docile QB’s who will be “good soldiers” and avoid turnovers. That’s not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but having that philosophy does have consequences. QB development is suffering from it.
Mett is an easy explanation. He received his early QB development (which is the most vital) at UGA and then at a JUCO college. By the time he arrived at LSU, he was already a confident and experienced QB.
I’m not a nega-tiger or a sunshine pumper. I’m just trying to call it like I see it. I can’t believe the amount of people who excuse the QB play as “let’s face it. We just don’t have an SEC-caliber QB this year.” Well, why the hell not? Why can so many other schools who don’t have the resources of LSU plug in new guys every year who can, at the very least, complete 55-60% of their passes for a couple thousand yards? Why is this such a struggle for LSU? It’s obvious that it’s an internal problem, and not just a matter of external circumstances.
It’s pretty much common knowledge that the standard punishment for fumbling is the bench.
How about interceptions?
Well, we know Jarrett Lee threw a bunch of pick-6’s in 2008, and then never started again until Les had no other choice besides a brand-new Zach Mettenberger in 2011.
We know Les replaced Lee the first chance he got in 2011 after throwing a couple of picks against Alabama (not saying that was a bad decision. Jefferson’s running won LSU that game.)
We can’t really make any assumptions about Mettenberger’s picks in 2012 or 2013 because he was far and away the best option, regardless.
We know Harris got banished again after throwing one pass and getting intercepted against Kentucky.
So here’s what I think the problem is…
If this is how turnovers are handled in games, why do we have any reason to believe that turnovers are handled any differently in practice?
Haven’t we always wondered why certain RB’s light it up one game, and then don’t start or barely get any carries in the next game? Could this be the explanation? Turning it over in practice?
Fumble or throw picks in practice and down the depth chart you go….
Wouldn’t this explain all the QB’s transferring out of LSU recently? Makes sense to me. It’s pretty obvious that, other than Mett, LSU has not had any stud QB’s since 2007 that would make younger QB's say "dang, I'm never gonna start over these guys."
Rob Bolden. Stephen Rivers. Hayden Rettig.
So what’s the problem? If those QB’s weren’t performing well, then good riddance, right?
Well, if anyone has ever played QB or is familiar with the mentality of the QB position, they would know that it requires a completely different mindset. It almost requires a mentality of cockiness. Not the bad kind of cockiness, but a level of confidence that nearly borders on cockiness. Because a QB has to break the huddle knowing that he’s going to make a great throw. He has to be confident enough to believe the opposing defense can’t stop him.
Does a culture of getting benched or demoted on the depth chart because of turnovers seem conducive to that type of mentality? To me, it’s dangerous, and not how you want to develop your QB’s, especially your younger QB’s. ESPECIALLY YOUR YOUNGER QBs IN PRACTICE!
Doesn’t this explain the constant worried looks on Jordan Jefferson and Anthony Jennings faces? Doesn’t it explain the inability to make quick and confident decisions with the football? Our QB’s aren’t out there trying to make plays. They’re out there trying not to make mistakes.
My personal opinion is that Les prefers docile QB’s who will be “good soldiers” and avoid turnovers. That’s not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but having that philosophy does have consequences. QB development is suffering from it.
Mett is an easy explanation. He received his early QB development (which is the most vital) at UGA and then at a JUCO college. By the time he arrived at LSU, he was already a confident and experienced QB.
I’m not a nega-tiger or a sunshine pumper. I’m just trying to call it like I see it. I can’t believe the amount of people who excuse the QB play as “let’s face it. We just don’t have an SEC-caliber QB this year.” Well, why the hell not? Why can so many other schools who don’t have the resources of LSU plug in new guys every year who can, at the very least, complete 55-60% of their passes for a couple thousand yards? Why is this such a struggle for LSU? It’s obvious that it’s an internal problem, and not just a matter of external circumstances.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 8:15 am
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:07 am to UGATiger26
Did you just figure this out this morning?
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:13 am to UGATiger26
quote:
I’m not a nega-tiger or a sunshine pumper.
Does not exist.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:14 am to StrangeBrew
Stop reading at title....devlopment
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:15 am to UGATiger26
quote:
Mett is an easy explanation. He received his early QB development (which is the most vital) at UGA and then at a JUCO college.
Yep
I just don't believe our offensive philosophy is going to allow most qbs to shine.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:24 am to UGATiger26
Miles needs therapy along with most of the ranters.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:25 am to UGATiger26
quote:
Mett is an easy explanation. He received his early QB development (which is the most vital) at UGA and then at a JUCO college. By the time he arrived at LSU, he was already a confident and experienced QB.
which totally explains his struggles in 2012 and then success in 2013.
Maybe QBs just take more than 1-2 years to develop.
I can definitely understand a complain that we should have a junior or senior in the system, bt honestly we went after a lot of QBs and there just aren't a ton out there that panned out.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:34 am to SammyTiger
quote:
which totally explains his struggles in 2012 and then success in 2013.
kind of makes you wonder why we didn't try developing him during all the blowouts in 2011...we knew he would be our starter in 2012. Just shows we don't try to develop qbs.
Seems to be happening with BH
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:42 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
kind of makes you wonder why we didn't try developing him during all the blowouts in 2011...we knew he would be our starter in 2012. Just shows we don't try to develop qbs.
I am gonna list Some QBs that got 0 snaps before starting
JT Barrett
Johnny Manziel
Jameis Winston
Sam Bradford
Matt Leinhart
Robert Griffin III
Getting snaps in junk time isn't that important. Most teams don't give their backup a ton of snaps.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:48 am to SammyTiger
quote:
I am gonna list Some QBs that got 0 snaps before starting
JT Barrett
Johnny Manziel
Jameis Winston
Sam Bradford
Matt Leinhart
Robert Griffin III
5 Heisman winners? Looked at their first year stats. All were pretty good. So I wonder what they all have in common? Played for great offensive minds???
quote:
Getting snaps in junk time isn't that important. Most teams don't give their backup a ton of snaps.
Anyone that knows anything about football completely disagrees with this. Any live snaps will help in development. It doesn't matter if they are just handing off.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 8:54 am
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:51 am to SammyTiger
AUBURN HAS A DB PLAYING QB where was this guys "development"????
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:54 am to SammyTiger
quote:
Maybe QBs just take more than 1-2 years to develop.
You say this and then list these guys:
quote:
I am gonna list Some QBs that got 0 snaps before starting
JT Barrett
Johnny Manziel
Jameis Winston
Sam Bradford
Matt Leinhart
Robert Griffin III
Getting snaps in junk time isn't that important. Most teams don't give their backup a ton of snaps.
who came right in and started lighting it up. They are obviously the extreme cases of very talented and VERY productive first and second year young starting QBs. However these cases along with many other across the country show that it doesn't ALWAYS have to take a couple years for a QB to be productive if the system helps him succeed.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:59 am to etm512
They also all has upperclassmen for receivers and weren't most of them RS Freshmen?
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:59 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
5 Heisman winners? I guess I need to check their first year stats to see if 3 of the 5 were Heisman calibur.
I picked them for several reason
1. players i remembered
2. all played at high level without taking a snap
Blake Sims had 39 passing attempts before taking over.
quote:
Anyone that knows anything about football completely disagrees with this. Any live snaps will help in development. It doesn't matter if they are just handing off.
It isn't a prerequisite to success. Also it doesn't lead to success the next year 100%.
You can't say Mett was ready because of UGA and JUCO, but wasn't ready because we didn't play him in 2011.
There are very few QBs that got a large amount of snap before they were a starter. IF a Qb has more than 30 passes in a season before they are a starter its usually because they starter was injured.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:01 am to ironsides
quote:
They also all has upperclassmen for receivers and weren't most of them RS Freshmen?
Believe most of them were in their 2nd years in the system.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:12 am to SammyTiger
quote:
You can't say Mett was ready because of UGA and JUCO, but wasn't ready because we didn't play him in 2011.
But, the point of my post is that Mett was developed at schools where he wasn't taught that interceptions are the root of all evil.
I think Mett's not playing in 2011 was more for x's and o's reasons. He was essentially a true freshman in terms of his grasp of the playbook. But, personally, he has already matured as a QB.
That's essentially what my theory is. That LSU isn't able to develop young QB's because they are being punished for throwing interceptions in practice. As a result, they're growing up in an environment where they're scared to make a mistake. Mett had already developed moxie and confidence. It's easy to see that. Even with the Titans.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:12 am to etm512
quote:
who came right in and started lighting it up.
Bradford
Mazeil
Winston
Barrett
Leinart
were all Redshirts
so they had a year to a year and a half if they wear Early Enrollees.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:15 am to UGATiger26
Being hard on turnovers is a good thing for a coach.
BUT, a coach can take it so far that the QB ends up being a hesitant indecisive QB who is scared shitless to let the ball fly out of his hands.
In my view, that has absolutely manifested itself in JJ, JL and now AJ.
It's like having a hitter show up at the plate thinking more about striking out or swinging at a bad bitch than about hitting the fricking ball. If you've ever played baseball, you know that the second you start worrying about failure at the plate, you actually get WORSE, not better.
I think this problem actually goes beyond QB for Miles. He CORRECTLY values mistake free football. However, he values it to the point that he seems to prefer UNPRODUCTIVE mistake free football over productivity.
If you graphing with the X axis being potential productivity and the Y axis being Potential Mistakes, I'd say that Miles would prefer a QB with (2,1) over a QB with (8,4).
It's kind of insane actually.
BUT, a coach can take it so far that the QB ends up being a hesitant indecisive QB who is scared shitless to let the ball fly out of his hands.
In my view, that has absolutely manifested itself in JJ, JL and now AJ.
It's like having a hitter show up at the plate thinking more about striking out or swinging at a bad bitch than about hitting the fricking ball. If you've ever played baseball, you know that the second you start worrying about failure at the plate, you actually get WORSE, not better.
I think this problem actually goes beyond QB for Miles. He CORRECTLY values mistake free football. However, he values it to the point that he seems to prefer UNPRODUCTIVE mistake free football over productivity.
If you graphing with the X axis being potential productivity and the Y axis being Potential Mistakes, I'd say that Miles would prefer a QB with (2,1) over a QB with (8,4).
It's kind of insane actually.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 9:17 am
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:18 am to UGATiger26
quote:
But, the point of my post is that Mett was developed at schools where he wasn't taught that interceptions are the root of all evil.
he was the backup at UGA, what if it was because he threw interceptions?
quote:
I think Mett's not playing in 2011 was more for x's and o's reasons. He was essentially a true freshman in terms of his grasp of the playbook. But, personally, he has already matured as a QB.
That just doesn't explain 2012.
quote:
That's essentially what my theory is. That LSU isn't able to develop young QB's because they are being punished for throwing interceptions in practice. As a result, they're growing up in an environment where they're scared to make a mistake. Mett had already developed moxie and confidence. It's easy to see that. Even with the Titans.
I think it is clear that Harris is being "punished" because he couldn't hand the ball off correctly multiple times. But really i think the coaches were like, lets give him a shot, ok lets give him more time.
I don't know how you can look at Jenning's game and say, oh he is so scared to throw a pick.
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