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re: Let's hear from those complaining about the Miles "offensive philosophy"
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:01 pm to NorthTiger
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:01 pm to NorthTiger
quote:
Tiger n Atl
He's probably swapping out his Ole Miss yard flag for his 'Bama one.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:05 pm to bfniii
Russell and Flynn joined the Tigers in 2003 under Nick Saban. Two years in the system before Miles in 2005. I absolutely hate mentioning this fact, because others abuse it. I would say Miles contributed to their successes, but is not the developer.
Perriloux--- Coulda, shoulda, woulda. Almost every QB under Miles' tenure has been decorated with stars. Bringing Perriloux up is a moot point. Fact is, we never got to really see him flourish. He possibly could be an exception, but it doesn't help your cause to bring him up.
Lee- so I say he was decent or ok. Well...would you argue that Les' handling of his tenure was perfect? Did Les really do him any justice in his development? I liked the kid. You are shooting yourself in the foot if you use him as an example of Les capitalizing on his skills as a QB developer.
Mettenberger was skilled at QB before his entrance at LSU. He went to Georgia (where they have a good history of developing QBs). He was in very intense QB competition with Aaron Murray for a starting position, next he led his JUCO team to a National Championship before transferring to LSU. What are you trying to say here? That Les was such a good QB developer that he erased Mettenberger's previous achievements and re-wrote the book? The passing game in 2011 and 2012 was a success in spite of Les' offensive philosophy. Do you not remember how Cam opened things up because of Mettenberger/Landry/Beckham's capabilities?
Your argument is that Les' offensive strategy of I-formation, run run run is effective and all that is needed. Or am I mistaken?
Don't get me wrong, Les Miles is a good coach and a great ambassador. He has MANY strengths. A testament to his effectiveness can be freshened in my mind every time I look at Will Muschamp. Les has been very effective at LSU. But he has not proven to be a great developer of the QB position and is not a brilliant Xs and Os guy.
I don't believe his has to be 100%, hands-down an offensive genius, and I am EXTREMELY happy how we controlled Ole Miss. I would simply argue, that I hope Jennings and Harris can progress and be developed, and frankly, helped out from time to time with some play calling. It's essential that we develop a credible passing threat, so BUGA can thrive easily.
Perriloux--- Coulda, shoulda, woulda. Almost every QB under Miles' tenure has been decorated with stars. Bringing Perriloux up is a moot point. Fact is, we never got to really see him flourish. He possibly could be an exception, but it doesn't help your cause to bring him up.
Lee- so I say he was decent or ok. Well...would you argue that Les' handling of his tenure was perfect? Did Les really do him any justice in his development? I liked the kid. You are shooting yourself in the foot if you use him as an example of Les capitalizing on his skills as a QB developer.
Mettenberger was skilled at QB before his entrance at LSU. He went to Georgia (where they have a good history of developing QBs). He was in very intense QB competition with Aaron Murray for a starting position, next he led his JUCO team to a National Championship before transferring to LSU. What are you trying to say here? That Les was such a good QB developer that he erased Mettenberger's previous achievements and re-wrote the book? The passing game in 2011 and 2012 was a success in spite of Les' offensive philosophy. Do you not remember how Cam opened things up because of Mettenberger/Landry/Beckham's capabilities?
Your argument is that Les' offensive strategy of I-formation, run run run is effective and all that is needed. Or am I mistaken?
Don't get me wrong, Les Miles is a good coach and a great ambassador. He has MANY strengths. A testament to his effectiveness can be freshened in my mind every time I look at Will Muschamp. Les has been very effective at LSU. But he has not proven to be a great developer of the QB position and is not a brilliant Xs and Os guy.
I don't believe his has to be 100%, hands-down an offensive genius, and I am EXTREMELY happy how we controlled Ole Miss. I would simply argue, that I hope Jennings and Harris can progress and be developed, and frankly, helped out from time to time with some play calling. It's essential that we develop a credible passing threat, so BUGA can thrive easily.
This post was edited on 10/27/14 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:08 pm to bfniii
quote:
how was my comment wrong?
In a a strict sense it wasn't wrong. Only Saban as a coach has won the SEC more than us since '08. But it was disingenuous since Auburn has won it 2X since '08. I was simply pointing out this fact.
As for Mack and Chizik, again if there's something special about "appearing" in a NCG since '08 (as your post suggests) then they accomplished this as well.
You're also underselliing Malzahn. If Auburn had a losing season in '12 (as they did), doesn't this make his body of work even more impressive?
But all of this is off-topic. We have 2 losses of which his post-'08 O-philosophy is a major factor. That's why he needs to rethink some things.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:12 pm to OceanMan
quote:
And both of those guys had QBs on those teams making starts in the NFL this week.
Ok, and isn't it the case they all of our WR's since '11 are in the NFL? They had talent. We have talent. We had a 1st rd QB once with two 1st rd WR's and we scored . . . 3 pts in game.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:15 pm to marklsu
quote:
Do you not remember how Cam opened things up because of Mettenberger/Landry/Beckham's capabilities?
Cam did not open things up. It only seemed that way because of the results. Here is my reply to another poster in a previous thread:
quote:
I guess perception is everything. Mettenberger had the most pass attempts of any QB since Flynn in the 2012-13 season(352). He actually threw the ball @ 2.5 times less per game in 2013-14(296 attempts in 12 games). The offense was not wide open. It was ridiculously efficient. Mettenberger threw 10 more tds vs 1 more int on 56 fewer pass attempts. He also raised his completion % about 8 pts to @ 66%.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:24 pm to AGENT225
AGENT225, I would agree that it wasn't OPEN, but passing effectiveness was a strength for us during a time span where that hadn't previously been the case. Miles was more comfortable letting these skilled guys do their thing. I understand this year's team is young, and we may very well have reloaded very well in the WR position.
The point of the OP was to call out people who criticized Miles' O philosophy. I feel sometimes that everyone that has a criticism has been labeled as a turncoat on this board. We have a successful game against Ole Miss that I'm sure all people (Miles fans or not) love. Pointing out areas where our coach has issues, doesn't necessarily mean that the person doing so is negating ALL of his strengths and accomplishments. I think a good many folks just want to see a hair more balance and get frustrated losing at home to Moo State and getting blown out by Auburn. Ya feel me?
The point of the OP was to call out people who criticized Miles' O philosophy. I feel sometimes that everyone that has a criticism has been labeled as a turncoat on this board. We have a successful game against Ole Miss that I'm sure all people (Miles fans or not) love. Pointing out areas where our coach has issues, doesn't necessarily mean that the person doing so is negating ALL of his strengths and accomplishments. I think a good many folks just want to see a hair more balance and get frustrated losing at home to Moo State and getting blown out by Auburn. Ya feel me?
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:34 pm to marklsu
quote:Only a football ignoramus would argue for or against, or even bring this up. Miles is about as much a QB developer as Saban is.
However, can one really argue that Miles is a great QB developer and coach?
Miles just plays to the strengths and abilities of personnel as any coach would, unlike a FB clueless Rantard who would pass for the sake of passing and damn the risks.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 3:40 pm to Mayhawman
There is more to FB coaching than to simply go out and play to the strengths and abilities of personnel. Coaching is not solely utilitarian. The very definition of the word suggests otherwise.
There are a host of areas that fall within the realm of coaching: recruiting, leading, scheming Xs and Os just to name a few.
The QB position is the single most important position on the field, for a host of reasons.
I'm not arguing to pass for the sake of passing. Don't twist things.
There are a host of areas that fall within the realm of coaching: recruiting, leading, scheming Xs and Os just to name a few.
The QB position is the single most important position on the field, for a host of reasons.
I'm not arguing to pass for the sake of passing. Don't twist things.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:07 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
Ok, and isn't it the case they all of our WR's since '11 are in the NFL? They had talent. We have talent. We had a 1st rd QB once with two 1st rd WR's and we scored . . . 3 pts in game
My points were not even relevant they were just random comments.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:22 pm to marklsu
quote:semantics. miles put them in position to start and be successful
I would say Miles contributed to their successes, but is not the developer
quote:? you must have missed the seccg. miles got him there.
Perriloux--- Coulda, shoulda, woulda.
quote:totally wrong. look at lee '08 and '11. totally different players.
You are shooting yourself in the foot if you use him as an example of Les capitalizing on his skills as a QB developer
quote:my gosh you people will say anything to disparage miles. look at mett '12 vs '13. objectively, clearly, obviously better.
Mettenberger was skilled at QB before his entrance at LSU
quote:check my post history. my point all along has been that miles mitigates risk on offense vs defense and special teams. sometimes that looks like '13, sometimes it looks like 2010.
Your argument is that Les' offensive strategy of I-formation, run run run is effective and all that is needed. Or am I mistaken?
quote:wrong. i have provided examples that objectively show that he has.
But he has not proven to be a great developer of the QB position
quote:you're saying the sec sucks if a buffoon can just throw some guys on the field and beat the best for 9 years.
not a brilliant Xs and Os guy.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:34 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:i disagree because you are omitting that miles has avoided the pitfalls that auburn, et al, have had.
But it was disingenuous since Auburn has won it 2X since '08
quote:again, this is about pitfalls. yes, auburn caught lightning in a bottle. yes texas had a nc. but also look at their lows. miles has been more consistent which is more impressive.
As for Mack and Chizik, again if there's something special about "appearing" in a NCG since '08 (as your post suggests) then they accomplished this as well
quote:let's see him accomplish half of what miles has done before we put him in miles' category
You're also underselliing Malzahn. If Auburn had a losing season in '12 (as they did), doesn't this make his body of work even more impressive?
quote:you mean like '13
his post-'08 O-philosophy
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:36 pm to AGENT225
quote:mett led the nation in completions beyond 10 yards, iirc, but you're saying the offense wasn't any more "open" than before. good grief
Cam did not open things up.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:36 pm to NorthTiger
We scored 10 points, not exactly offensive juggernaut.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:37 pm to NorthTiger
quote:We had 10 points. Let's not call this a finished product just yet.
Let's hear from those complaining about the Miles "offensive philosophy"
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:38 pm to marklsu
quote:This is done and you make no real point.
There is more to FB coaching than to simply go out and play to the strengths and abilities of personnel. Coaching is not solely utilitarian. The very definition of the word suggests otherwise. There are a host of areas that fall within the realm of coaching: recruiting, leading, scheming Xs and Os just to name a few.
quote:????? No shite.
The QB position is the single most important position on the field, for a host of reasons.
You and many others problem is you think you know the answers more than the staff that works with these guys 20hrs a week.
quote:You and others complain about the way the offense is run instead od accepting reality.
I'm not arguing to pass for the sake of passing. Don't twist things.
quote:Yeah, that's why they started so many games under Saban.
Russell, Flynn both did not receive the fundamentals of QB position from Miles.
Back to Miles has coached a few positons, but don't recall QB being one.
quote:Way to discredit to try and validate your misconceptions.
Perriloux -- not a strong example for your argument. Not enough to go on here.
quote:Until under pressure and disguised covers. His counterpart actually exceeded just about every one of his career stats. Not partisan, just fact.
Lee was decent.
quote:Another QB added to"developed elsewhere"? So Mett was all world in '11 and '12? None of these mentioned were good enough to start when arrived, so GTFO.
Mett was prepped at another school.
This post was edited on 10/27/14 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:41 pm to Mayhawman
Miles coaching has been flawless this year.
He knew the defense would step up and overcome those 4 turnovers so it didn't matter that nearly 13% of our pass attempts were intercepted. Just amazing coaching to realize that going in!
He knew the defense would step up and overcome those 4 turnovers so it didn't matter that nearly 13% of our pass attempts were intercepted. Just amazing coaching to realize that going in!
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:44 pm to Salmon
quote:
When it works, its awesome
When it doesn't, it looks god awful
Basically like anything
this! and this is what drives me nuts about the "predictability" of the playcalling. God forbid a run gets stopped and people freak the shite out.
Sure LSU runs a whole lot, but there are wrinkles that most don't see. For example, the option play against bama in OT in 2011...we had not run a play like that all night (and it was to the short side btw). The coaches basically left Ford naked to the sideline with only the FB in front (no TE blocking on the short side), but he still got through.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 4:44 pm to NorthTiger
each game can be radically different. It is about timing, film study, preparation and most importantly MATCH-UPS.
Miles style was a perfect fit for the smallish Ole Miss D. Running right up the gut for 4 qtrs with fresh legs was a good thing.
Against Miss State, not so much, as they have NFL size DT's.
You must think much more broadly before coming to such a conclusion.
Miles style was a perfect fit for the smallish Ole Miss D. Running right up the gut for 4 qtrs with fresh legs was a good thing.
Against Miss State, not so much, as they have NFL size DT's.
You must think much more broadly before coming to such a conclusion.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 5:20 pm to Mayhawman
I love how I praise coach for being an effective coach and succeeding at many aspects of the game, yet point a criticism at one aspect or pitfall, and I'm a negatiger, a hater, and a rantard with a low FB IQ.
To defend his ability at the development of the QB position and almost present it as a strength goes in the face of almost every objective fan of college football. It's delusional. I don't even think Miles would label as one of his strengths as a coach. This by no means makes him a bad coach. I agree that mitigating mistakes is a wise move, and would never argue otherwise. You do what you have to do to win. I simply believe there is an easier way to win that going 9 yards over 7 carries LINK
Or running the ball 3 times in a series over and over and over. I prefer the run, and I think most LSU fans do. I think the pass opens up the running game. I am simply hoping and stating (once again-for those who ignore the over-arching comment I'm making, and choose to show no common ground) that this round of QBs should/can be developed a little quicker/better, and coach needs to call plays that help them. We can be a little predictable at times. I'm not arguing pass for the sake of passing, I'm arguing pass for the sake of a dominant run game. I saw improvement against Ole Miss, but there is still a way to go. As you said, this staff spends "20 hours a week" at it and we still are sputtering on offense. Accepting reality? Why don't you accept reality that Miles' offense could be improved with more QB development, and that it is not a strength of Miles' tenure. Russell/Flynn spent 2 years under different leadership, to negate that fact in their development is a little ignorant. As is the same story for Mettenberger.
Not expecting Miles to come out with a magic wand and have an "all world" QB. I do however, think there is more that could be done, as we are halfway through the year.
To defend his ability at the development of the QB position and almost present it as a strength goes in the face of almost every objective fan of college football. It's delusional. I don't even think Miles would label as one of his strengths as a coach. This by no means makes him a bad coach. I agree that mitigating mistakes is a wise move, and would never argue otherwise. You do what you have to do to win. I simply believe there is an easier way to win that going 9 yards over 7 carries LINK
Or running the ball 3 times in a series over and over and over. I prefer the run, and I think most LSU fans do. I think the pass opens up the running game. I am simply hoping and stating (once again-for those who ignore the over-arching comment I'm making, and choose to show no common ground) that this round of QBs should/can be developed a little quicker/better, and coach needs to call plays that help them. We can be a little predictable at times. I'm not arguing pass for the sake of passing, I'm arguing pass for the sake of a dominant run game. I saw improvement against Ole Miss, but there is still a way to go. As you said, this staff spends "20 hours a week" at it and we still are sputtering on offense. Accepting reality? Why don't you accept reality that Miles' offense could be improved with more QB development, and that it is not a strength of Miles' tenure. Russell/Flynn spent 2 years under different leadership, to negate that fact in their development is a little ignorant. As is the same story for Mettenberger.
Not expecting Miles to come out with a magic wand and have an "all world" QB. I do however, think there is more that could be done, as we are halfway through the year.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 5:29 pm to bfniii
Here's the first two parts of your earlier post:
Nothing about "pitfalls."
So you think Malzahn "caught lightning in a bottle" last year? The guy inherited a team that just went 3-9 and 0-8 in the SEC. Dismissing what Auburn accomplished last year is less than sober. And FTR, since '08 he's already matched Les's accomplishments.
I'm not the only one who thinks Les underwent a paradigm shift on O after '08.
quote:quote:
quote:
Les still needs to put the ghosts of '08 behind him
my gosh. the guy is second only to saban since that time and this crap is still getting posted. he's appeared in a ncg since then!
quote:quote:
quote:
he needs to be criticized for the non-competitive slop we saw vs State and Auburn. What was the game plan there?
those 2 teams were better than lsu at that time. lsu is continuing to improve which once again shows that miles can overcome difficulties such as all of the early departures.
Nothing about "pitfalls."
So you think Malzahn "caught lightning in a bottle" last year? The guy inherited a team that just went 3-9 and 0-8 in the SEC. Dismissing what Auburn accomplished last year is less than sober. And FTR, since '08 he's already matched Les's accomplishments.
I'm not the only one who thinks Les underwent a paradigm shift on O after '08.
This post was edited on 10/27/14 at 5:31 pm
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