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Started By
Message
re: NBA Lottery Reform is coming
Posted on 7/16/14 at 4:09 pm to saintsfan22
Posted on 7/16/14 at 4:09 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
So Lebron told the league in advance? Or the league thought there was no chance he'd return to Miami, even though they seemed poised for their 3rd straight title at the time of the lottery?
It was a joke man hence the
You can come up with a BS reason every year to say the lottery is rigged
1
Posted on 7/16/14 at 4:13 pm to RTR America
My bad it just irrationally frustrates me more than any other topic in sports.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 4:16 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:Plus, its not like 3rd seed playoff teams are tanking for guys like Wiggins. Teams who were already horrible, just get worse. So a team goes from possibly winning 25 games to winning 19. Meh...
Yeah, that's a terrible idea. Honestly, tanking is overstated. Even if teams do tank, they often miss the #1 pick. That's the point of the lottery. It hedges against tanking. You can't just say "screw the have nots," though. They need to be careful not to go too far with their tweaks.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 4:16 pm to saintsfan22
There was an article released right before the lottery that was like here is proof to why team X will win the lottery that was pretty funny
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 4:30 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
The Sixers tanked so disgracefully that they killed the system for good. Incredible.
They actually tanked the "right" way by trading away talent for space and potential. Other teams tank by holding out "injured" players and employing lineups and rotations to get "experience" instead of wins.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 5:01 pm to JohnnyKilroy
Throwing random ideas:
What about a system that rewards wins among the worst teams or whatever.
For instance at season end take the worst teams, then give the pick to the team that won the most or won the most games over the back half of the season. Would make it confusing that's for sure
Idea probably has zero merit, you'd just tank for 13th I imagine or some other way
What about a system that rewards wins among the worst teams or whatever.
For instance at season end take the worst teams, then give the pick to the team that won the most or won the most games over the back half of the season. Would make it confusing that's for sure
Idea probably has zero merit, you'd just tank for 13th I imagine or some other way
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 5:04 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 5:14 pm to JohnnyKilroy
The problem with a bottom 4 "playoff" is the very real and likely possibility that the shittiest 2 or 3 teams in the league never get the first pick.
It'd actually make tanking even easier because you can tank to the bottom 4 and then just beat the legitimately crappy teams. Think of a decent/good team that has bad injury problems throughout the season suddenly having a full squad come draft tourney time at the end of the season.
It'd actually make tanking even easier because you can tank to the bottom 4 and then just beat the legitimately crappy teams. Think of a decent/good team that has bad injury problems throughout the season suddenly having a full squad come draft tourney time at the end of the season.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 5:44 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:This might make that Pelican's pick the Rockets got in the Asik trade even better.
The problem with this is that you have a bunch of outstanding trades involving lottery picks that could be greatly affected by this.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 5:48 pm to PrimeTime Money
And one other thing... I don't consider what the Sixers are doing to be tanking. It's just rebuilding. They blew up their team to start from scratch with young talent.
They aren't purposely losing games in order to game the system so that they get the first pick. That's tanking.
They aren't purposely losing games in order to game the system so that they get the first pick. That's tanking.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 5:49 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:No one does that. You don't tell the players "go out there and lose on purpose." That would be an absolute disaster.
They aren't purposely losing games in order to game the system so that they get the first pick. That's tanking.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 5:50 pm to PrimeTime Money
people just don't understand the difference between "tanking" and "being fricking awful"
Posted on 7/16/14 at 5:52 pm to quail man
People don't even understand what tanking is. As others have said, you do it through intentionally poor coaching and roster shifts. You do not actively throw the game.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:05 pm to genro
Reasons I don't have issues with what the Sixers are doing:
A) The previous FO left them an absolute dumpster fire to work with because of the Bynum trade
B) Their plan isn't to be an above .500 team that maybe competes in a playoff series or two. What they are doing is to compete for championships. That shite is hard without having 3 all-star/almost all-star level guys to build around.
C) They've been open and honest to their fan base that this might be a lengthy process. From what I have seen some places is that most of them seem to be okay with it. That is a tough sell anywhere, but likely even harder to pull off in a place like Philly.
I love the Sixers as a sort of test case for this type of rebuild. Collect assets, develop young talent, and hope it all meshes well down the road.
A) The previous FO left them an absolute dumpster fire to work with because of the Bynum trade
B) Their plan isn't to be an above .500 team that maybe competes in a playoff series or two. What they are doing is to compete for championships. That shite is hard without having 3 all-star/almost all-star level guys to build around.
C) They've been open and honest to their fan base that this might be a lengthy process. From what I have seen some places is that most of them seem to be okay with it. That is a tough sell anywhere, but likely even harder to pull off in a place like Philly.
I love the Sixers as a sort of test case for this type of rebuild. Collect assets, develop young talent, and hope it all meshes well down the road.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:11 pm to genro
quote:absolutely. tanking is done by the suits, not by the players.
People don't even understand what tanking is. As others have said, you do it through intentionally poor coaching and roster shifts. You do not actively throw the game.
quote:but the problem is when a team looks to be about a 25 win team during the offseason. but it behooves the front office to move the savvy vet who does little things to help the young pups. his +/- isnt as big as his intangibles. so they let him go. they dont sign another up and comer who could make them better. they draft a prospect whos "a few years" away instead of the guy who could legitimately help them win now if that were the goal, but its not. you take a roster with 25-30 win potential and make sure if cant win 15 b/c losing big pays off.
Teams who were already horrible, just get worse. So a team goes from possibly winning 25 games to winning 19. Meh...
in the new system, being the worst team and the 10th worst wouldnt be a huge difference in your odds for the #1 pick, so losing tons of games wont necessarily make you better, faster. theres no incentive to completely bottom out the franchise at the chance to score a young superstar.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 6:18 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 8:51 pm to RTR America
They should give each team one ping-pong ball for each win after elimination. That would give the worst teams the most opportunities to earn ping-pong balls, but would reward bad teams who keep fighting over bad teams who tank.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 11:54 pm to RTR America
Lottery draft is the shittiest draft idea in sports
Posted on 7/17/14 at 1:20 am to msutiger
Proposal off the top of my head:
1. Take the 10 worst teams in the NBA by record and place them in a random order.
2. Put the next 20 teams by record in order behind them.
3. Draft.
Looking at the past 5 seasons, the 10th worst team in the league is hovering around .400 win rate. Playoff contention win rate in most years is in the .450 to .500 range, and there's usually a noticeable (.03 to .05) gap between playoff contenders who just miss the mark and the upper crust of these bottom-10 teams who clearly aren't going to the playoffs, but also aren't intentionally tanking.
The idea here is that there are three groups of teams in the NBA: consistently-contending playoff teams, attempting-contention playoff teams, and non-contending playoff teams. If your current roster can consistently contend for the playoffs, you don't need a new superstar and don't really have an argument for being in the lottery for one. If your current roster can't contend for one at all, and you know it, then you're probably in the worst-10 teams and have an argument for being in the lottery for a superstar. If you're in the middle, then you should be able to look long and hard at that roster and decide whether or not this team is just a piece or two, or some experience, away from consistent contention, or whether it's peaked out at middling hell and needs to be blown up. Your strategy ("tank" to get into the bottom 10, or improve some to make the playoffs) comes accordingly.
If you have equal likelihood of getting the top pick as the worst team compared to the 10th worst team, then that removes the incentive to go all-out in trying to lose. You would only blow up the whole roster a la Philly if you truly had no redeeming value on it. Basically, a random top-10 pick order would remove any incentive to tank beyond being the 10th worst team, and would force teams who want to tank to try to be the 10th worst. After all, even though these teams want to lose, it's not like losing is an end unto itself here. You still want to win games and develop the roster you have. By creating a wide range of lottery contenders, you give teams leeway to try to win some and develop the players on the roster. This is much better than the current system, where every loss improves your odds of getting a higher pick, and so while it encourages tanking in the sense that it encourages teams who aren't good to be in the bottom 10 teams in the NBA, it doesn't encourage teams going all-out and sacrificing player development in the hopes of losing 65 games a season.
1. Take the 10 worst teams in the NBA by record and place them in a random order.
2. Put the next 20 teams by record in order behind them.
3. Draft.
Looking at the past 5 seasons, the 10th worst team in the league is hovering around .400 win rate. Playoff contention win rate in most years is in the .450 to .500 range, and there's usually a noticeable (.03 to .05) gap between playoff contenders who just miss the mark and the upper crust of these bottom-10 teams who clearly aren't going to the playoffs, but also aren't intentionally tanking.
The idea here is that there are three groups of teams in the NBA: consistently-contending playoff teams, attempting-contention playoff teams, and non-contending playoff teams. If your current roster can consistently contend for the playoffs, you don't need a new superstar and don't really have an argument for being in the lottery for one. If your current roster can't contend for one at all, and you know it, then you're probably in the worst-10 teams and have an argument for being in the lottery for a superstar. If you're in the middle, then you should be able to look long and hard at that roster and decide whether or not this team is just a piece or two, or some experience, away from consistent contention, or whether it's peaked out at middling hell and needs to be blown up. Your strategy ("tank" to get into the bottom 10, or improve some to make the playoffs) comes accordingly.
If you have equal likelihood of getting the top pick as the worst team compared to the 10th worst team, then that removes the incentive to go all-out in trying to lose. You would only blow up the whole roster a la Philly if you truly had no redeeming value on it. Basically, a random top-10 pick order would remove any incentive to tank beyond being the 10th worst team, and would force teams who want to tank to try to be the 10th worst. After all, even though these teams want to lose, it's not like losing is an end unto itself here. You still want to win games and develop the roster you have. By creating a wide range of lottery contenders, you give teams leeway to try to win some and develop the players on the roster. This is much better than the current system, where every loss improves your odds of getting a higher pick, and so while it encourages tanking in the sense that it encourages teams who aren't good to be in the bottom 10 teams in the NBA, it doesn't encourage teams going all-out and sacrificing player development in the hopes of losing 65 games a season.
Posted on 7/17/14 at 1:24 am to lsutothetop
quote:
1. Take the 10 worst teams in the NBA by record and place them in a random order.
2. Put the next 20 teams by record in order behind them.
3. Draft.
I'm a big proponent of keeping it the way it is, but have the whole thing based on record (Worst 14 teams in the league record wise are in the lottery). More often then not the way the league is right now the 9th seed in the West doesn't need a lottery pick as much as the 7th or 8th seed in the East does. I think it would help with the balancing issues between the conferences.
This post was edited on 7/17/14 at 1:26 am
Posted on 7/17/14 at 8:33 am to msutiger
They release the video after. I actually started a thread posting it a month or two ago.
It is very boring to watch. They use a four ping pong ball system and different values match up with the teams.
The only way to truly eliminate tanking is to randomize the entire draft and give each team an equal chance.
It is very boring to watch. They use a four ping pong ball system and different values match up with the teams.
The only way to truly eliminate tanking is to randomize the entire draft and give each team an equal chance.
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