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re: Fantasy Board Regulars 2014 Thread
Posted on 8/5/14 at 6:31 pm to GynoSandberg
Posted on 8/5/14 at 6:31 pm to GynoSandberg
and now he's a #1-2 round pick.
Ok. I quit. You win.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 6:43 pm to Gtothemoney
Not trying to win. Just looking for a better support to your argument. Im curious because you're just so adamant but you're not giving me anything of substance to sway my logic. Im not stubborn and can be convinced, but he was a backup last season with backup stats doesn't do it for me. At least use the "he can't block" or "he can't catch"
Posted on 8/5/14 at 6:53 pm to GynoSandberg
I've already given you my argument. He played 16 games and only finished with a lil over 500 yds and 4 TDS. He had fumbling and protection problems early which made him fall out of favor with Peyton.
I admitted he did look good towards the end of the season. But looking good in 5 games doesn't make you a 1st/2nd round pick. The only reason he's being considered that high is because he plays with Peyton and that offense who scores a bajillion points a game.
God damn I hope this dude doesn't have a good season or I'll never hear the end of it.
I admitted he did look good towards the end of the season. But looking good in 5 games doesn't make you a 1st/2nd round pick. The only reason he's being considered that high is because he plays with Peyton and that offense who scores a bajillion points a game.
God damn I hope this dude doesn't have a good season or I'll never hear the end of it.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 6:58 pm to Gtothemoney
quote:
The only reason he's being considered that high is because he plays with Peyton and that offense who scores a bajillion points a game.
which means he will score a shite ton of points in the system making him a high pick. i dont see how this a knock against him
Posted on 8/5/14 at 6:59 pm to Gtothemoney
He's going to have a good season but you do have valid points. I think he's a first round back and will put up first round numbers but, I don't have the stones to pick him up there.
Potential plays a big part in predicating value and Monte Ball oozes potential.
Potential plays a big part in predicating value and Monte Ball oozes potential.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:07 pm to Gtothemoney
quote:
He played 16 games and only finished with a lil over 500 yds and 4 TDS.
Better ypa than last year's rookies Lacy, Lev Bell, Gio Bernard, Stacy. Tells me increased carries could translate into production. Broncos are 2nd in the league in rushing attempts inside the 5 since Manning went to Denver... Moreno got those carries last season... Ball this year. Run at 4 ypa with 250 touches... catch ~50 balls. The math says he's 1st or 2nd rd material.
Guys like Leveon Bell and Zac Stacy couldn't even muster 4 ypa. Lacy and Bernard were right at 4. Yet they got the volume on the ground and through the air, so their volume numbers are there, much like Trent Richardson the year before. Are they world beaters? Meh
quote:
I admitted he did look good towards the end of the season. But looking good in 5 games doesn't make you a 1st/2nd round pick. The only reason he's being considered that high is because he plays with Peyton and that offense who scores a bajillion points a game.
Dude, 5 games and the work he put in is pretty telling. What's the magic number of games one needs to see to be convinced? It's the same offense plus new weapons.
I mean, if any decent RB played in DEN then they would be drafted the same way too. All it takes is getting the volume. The rest takes care of itself. Ellington, Ben Tate, Gerhart, etc have never proved anything, and they are going in the 3rd, 4th, 5th. And they are in shitty offenses. If those guys played in DEN, where would they be drafted?
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:14 pm to Gtothemoney
gotta say gyno is pretty convincing here. he got me sold
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:15 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Better ypa than last year's rookies Lacy, Lev Bell, Gio Bernard, Stacy.
Have to be careful looking at ypa for back-up RBs. They are often put into situations as back-ups that don't play out when they are starting.
I'm on your side overall in this discussion, but I've seen this particular argument blow up too often.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:23 pm to BhamTigah
quote:
Have to be careful looking at ypa for back-up RBs. They are often put into situations as back-ups that don't play out when they are starting.
Well, I figured it was a perfect counter to the dumb argument that he played 16 games and only had 120/559/4 and 20/145. But he played 16 games!!!!!!!! What part of backup RB and KNowshon getting 250 carries and 60 receptions do we not understand? How much workload is left?
I posted this earlier in the thread
quote:
Were his numbers bad last year or something? He was the RB2 in Denver. Ball's accumulative numbers weren't there, obviously. 15 carries was the most he saw in a game.
11/61 vs OAK
7/40 vs NE
13/117 vs KC
15/77 vs TEN
10/72 vs OAK
10/52 vs SD
That's not even with his receiving stats. He gashed defenses in limited duty.
quote:
I think he's a first round back and will put up first round numbers but, I don't have the stones to pick him up there.
You know, I am usually the same way.
Reading this article changed my mind:
quote:
Myth 1: Because of poor ball security, he shouldn't be trusted carrying fine china, babies or oblong objects wrapped in brown leather. It's always difficult to erase early season memories. On his first 33 touches, Ball put the pill on the ground twice, one in front of large national TV audience in the Manning Bowl. As a result, he quickly gained a butter-hands reputation. However, he only coughed it up one time over his next 140 grips. In college, that streak was barely a drop in the bucket. While at Wisconsin, he didn't fumble until his 803rd career touch. Let that soak in for a moment. His early hiccups were fluky. When it comes to holding onto the rock, the man is the definition of reliable.
quote:
Myth 2: When oncoming rushers shoot through the gap, he morphs into Casper, the sack friendly ghost. Several scouts questioned Ball's ability to pick up the blitz entering last season's NFL Draft. More of a cut blocker, it was an area of concern. Throughout training camp and the preseason, he occasionally struggled identifying and blowing up the oncoming rush, missteps that practically cemented Moreno's stake as RB1. However, being the worker bee Ball is, he greatly improved as the season wore on. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus, he graded out higher than Knowshon in pass blocking. At first he experienced a few growing pains, but he developed into a trustworthy protector.
quote:
Bottom line: Drafters who buy into the above myths will stupidly bypass a sure-fire RB1 in drafts this summer. The offensive environment and lack of meaningful competition (Enough with the C.J. Anderson is 'God' chatter, haters), practically rubber stamps a 300-touch workload. Peyton Manning, who's sung Ball's praises this offseason, has the utmost confidence the rusher will take the next step. History supports that notion. As industry colleague Denny Carter recently pointed out, primary RBs who've played alongside No. 18 averaged 1,518 combined yards and 10.4 touchdowns per season, an output nearly identical to what DeMarco Murray, the eighth-best rusher in fantasy, accomplished last year. And, again, that's just the average. Ball, like Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai and Moreno before him, will see few defenders in the box. A top-five season is on the horizon.
We will just have to let this one play out
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:35 pm to GynoSandberg
Didn't you take him at pick 16 (or somewhere near that)? Not like you reached on him. I've seen him go top 10 in most drafts.
I actually prefer Ball to Murray who was drafted a couple of spots earlier, and Murray is one of the main reasons I won last year.
I would have definitely taken Ball in that spot, especially with you taking WR in the 1st.
Now, just don't get nervous and trade him away before the season starts.
I actually prefer Ball to Murray who was drafted a couple of spots earlier, and Murray is one of the main reasons I won last year.
I would have definitely taken Ball in that spot, especially with you taking WR in the 1st.
Now, just don't get nervous and trade him away before the season starts.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:37 pm to BhamTigah
Yeah, he was my 2nd rounder. Which I'm totally comfortable with
I'm not training anything unless it's 1 of my 15 WRs
I'm not training anything unless it's 1 of my 15 WRs
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:42 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Yeah, he was my 2nd rounder.
sniped me on that one. would have taken him in a heart beat. in fact at that point i was planning on rolling with an all bye week 4 starting team
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:48 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
11/61 vs OAK 7/40 vs NE
13/117 vs KC
15/77 vs TEN
10/72 vs OAK
10/52 vs SD
That's not even with his receiving stats. He gashed defenses in limited duty.
12/24 vs Giants
11/37 vs Wash
8/24 vs Balt
8/25 KC
See, i can do this too.
I don't think my stats are "dumb" considering we're talking about a 1st/2nd round pick here.
Is he in the perfect offense to "potentially" put up top 12 RB numbers, yes, ok. I'll concede that, I guess.
I don't see it him doing that, you do. GL.
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 7:49 pm
Posted on 8/5/14 at 8:44 pm to GynoSandberg
You have convinced me to take Ball in the 2nd round of my main league
Posted on 8/5/14 at 8:47 pm to TigerTatorTots
more fuel to the gyno fire
quote:
9. Montee Ball, RB, Denver Broncos
Weeks 1-7: 12.4 snaps, 6.1 carries, 3.6 routes, 0.6 targets
Weeks 8-17, plus three playoff games: 24.9 snaps, 8.8 carries, 11.8 routes, 2.5 targets
Selected in the second round of the 2013 draft, Ball entered his rookie season in position to compete for Denver's lead back gig. He ended up settling in behind Knowshon Moreno and, at least for a few weeks, Ronnie Hillman. As the season progressed, Hillman faded away and Ball took on a larger role.
Denver's record-setting offense allowed the Broncos to give Ball long looks in the second half of blowouts. The rookie responded with a healthy 4.4 yards per carry on 148 carries. With Moreno now in Miami, Ball is in position to take over as the feature back in Denver's high-scoring attack. He's worth a look at the Round 1-2 turn.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 8:57 pm to CE Tiger
I don't know why I keep doing this, but I can find these things too.
quote:
Montee Ball, RB, Denver Broncos:
Everyone who thinks Ball is a slam-dunk first-round pick, I ask you this: Can you name a player who had a worse rookie year and then was a no-doubt first-rounder as a soph? Ball is more talented than Knowshon Moreno, and he should've blown Moreno out of the water last summer. He was supposed to be so pro-ready, and yet he fumbled and whiffed on blocks and looked meh running the ball. So now Moreno has moved on, and Ball has the inside track to a job that made Moreno the No. 5 RB in fantasy last year. He could absolutely repeat this performance, but how sure are you? Does it usually work out well when we draft not the players themselves, but rather their roles? I've bumped Ball up to the No. 10 spot in my RB ranks, so I guess I'm all aboard the hype train. But I acknowledge it could derail.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 10:15 pm to Gtothemoney
Well he's not a no doubt 1st rounder. He's in that same class of RB as Bell, Lacy, Bernard.
How many 2nd year, 1st time starters step into a situation where they are now in a record setting offense playing next to arguably the greatest QB to ever play the game?
High powered offense
Teams cannot stack box
Manning throw to RBs
Goal line opportunities are there
No real threat to steal carries
Proved to be decent enough in limited time
You aren't finding many teams using 1 exclusive back, much less one that has the best offense in the league. If Ball is great, you hit a HR. If he averages 3 ypa and is a plodder, you hit a single, bc he probably still catches a few balls and gets goaline looks.. So worst case scenario? 10 PPG?
How many 2nd year, 1st time starters step into a situation where they are now in a record setting offense playing next to arguably the greatest QB to ever play the game?
quote:
Does it usually work out well when we draft not the players themselves, but rather their roles?
High powered offense
Teams cannot stack box
Manning throw to RBs
Goal line opportunities are there
No real threat to steal carries
Proved to be decent enough in limited time
You aren't finding many teams using 1 exclusive back, much less one that has the best offense in the league. If Ball is great, you hit a HR. If he averages 3 ypa and is a plodder, you hit a single, bc he probably still catches a few balls and gets goaline looks.. So worst case scenario? 10 PPG?
Posted on 8/6/14 at 8:29 pm to GynoSandberg
this dude has Ball as his picture on his team page
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