re: I never knew "nu-metal" was a derogatory term.

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But I do admit I hate nu metal more than I actually hate it because it is the death knell of 90s grunge and alt-rock. there was a genuine attempt in the early 90s by mainstream artists to make earnest, socially conscious music. And year, earnestness never ages well, but within just a few years, the dominant rock music was angry, humorless, and just mean. There was a brief era there were girls could go to shows without getting groped, but now we're back to trying to get women to show their tits on the jumbotron. It's embarrassing. And there was a sudden backlash to "****s" and "bitches". When just a few years earlier, everyone was invited in the big Loser tent together

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"Woodstock 99" was a horrible scene.

I used to consider myself as a huge grunge fan but I've realized over the years that what I liked was the music and not so much the social conscience side of it. The music scene in Seattle was an exclusive club. Their thoughts were that if we make it big then we've sold out. Cobain struggled with this as did all of Pearl Jam. That type of mentality is self destructive. It's almost like they wanted to call the shots on their own music which is great theoretically but that mentality falls in on itself when a large group of people start to like your music. It's almost selfish.

The most popular grunge bands could have put out great music well into the future if they would have dropped the dope and self-pity while accepting that music is something that all people enjoy and it's not to be hoarded. Pearl Jam did this and they are still making the music they want to make.

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I’ll never get Korn and Limp Bizkit. I’ll always consider nü-metal a symptom of the nihilism, self-absorption, and arrogance percolating in American culture in the late ’90s, before it flowered into something really ugly a few years later. I find nothing inspiring about this music. I feel that I am right about this. But I suspect this opinion is meaningless, because I’m just playing the role nü-metal wanted me to play. I was the adult now

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This sounds depressing because it's basically "I don't understand these kids' music anymore". But I do understand his sentiments.

If nothing else at least nu-metal was innovative.

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And no one likes to see their youth die so quickly or in such an ugly fashion.

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this is pretty much the backbone of your argument. you came of age during the grunge era, so you prefer it

the hair metal guys who preceeded you hated grunge for similar reasons (grunge's grittiness and "low" nature" was a direct rejection of the materialism and spectacle nature of cock rock). cock rock got popular and derivative, which made it worse

rap-rock was a rejection of the somber, suicidal, serious nature of grunge. it was energetic, explosive, simple, etc

i bridged both genres (as i'm a few years younger than you), so i was never truly invested in either. both are forgettable, but both have their place

a lot of the original acts did have a lot of things you claim you like from grunge, too. rage was political. korn had that emo/whining/pussy angle to it that grunge loved (and for the record i hated korn).

the anger of rap-rock kind of evened out with the next major genre: pop punk. it had all the energy of rap rock that rejected the boring arse grunge era, but it wasn't nearly as angry. it worked for parties and driving around

System Of A Down was great for a bit then, but I never considered them to be anything like those other bands.

I was forever amazed that after the heights reached by so many 90's bands, dog shite like Limp Bizkit or Papa Roach found such fame.

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I was forever amazed that after the heights reached by so many 90's bands, dog shite like Limp Bizkit or Papa Roach found such fame.

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it's not really that shocking. popular music shifts and the shift usually is a rejection of the prior pop genre

grunge was boring, moody, depressing, confusing (in an attempt to be intellectual), demanding, etc

so what replaced it? a very energetic/emotional and simpler music

it's like how rap went through similar shifts. gangsta rap for the early 90s merged into club/party rap...and then people got tired of being pussies and then P blew up because he was still doing gangsta rap...and then people got tired of being so hard/serious and club rap showed back up

same shite in rock. serious/boring to angry/energetic to fun/energetic...to serious/boring

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cock rock

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really? WTF?

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Wasn't really familiar with this genre, but all those bands listed were god awful... Glad I was too old to have to be a party to that crap...

I had enough growing up with Hair Metal...

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Pretty much in line with my thinking.

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RATM

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Another one I don't consider nu metal. Nu metal bands certainly took some influence from Rage, though.

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this is pretty much the backbone of your argument. you came of age during the grunge era, so you prefer it

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Of course. I wasn't being coy. I stated that bluntly. But I do like a lot of what came after, just not nu metal. In fact, the late 90s were a near golden age for indie rock. Just tons of great stuff was being made, and I love a ton of it (Modest Mouse, Neutral Milk Hotel, Sleater-Kinney, etc). So it's not just simply "I got old", which I freely admit.

It's that we had ideals and values that didn't just fail to survive, but were gleefully trampled. And now as a father of a daughter, I feel even stronger about the grunge era's attempts at gender equity, ham-fisted as they were. Nu metal was picking up the nihilism of punk with none of the wit. I don't mourn that music changed, because I moved on to new things as well, I mourned that it changed to something ugly and mean (not to mention racist, sexist, and homophobic).

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a lot of the original acts did have a lot of things you claim you like from grunge, too. rage was political. korn had that emo/whining/pussy angle to it that grunge loved (and for the record i hated korn).

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Rage started in 1991. Evil Empire was in 1996. They weren't a grunge band, but they are of that era. Rage was a peer to Pearl Jam, albeit doing something entirely different. Hey, STP wasn't grunge either.

Korn... well, the mere fact you describe their music as whining pussy music pretty much sums up every problem I have with nu metal. Though I actually do like Freak on a Leash. Korn is pretty hit and miss for me, but I do feel they are a band trapped in permanent adolescence. I might've liked em when I was 15 and now have fond memories of being 15, but I encountered them way too late.

It's like Minor Threat. I love Minor Threat. But I can't imagine ever being that angry. I know I was when I was 12, but I just don't relate to that and can't even mentally put my self in that place. That said, when I listen to Minor Threat, I don't hear rage, I hear the fun times I had when I was a kid. I hear sepia-toned nostalgia. Nu metal will never occupy that space for me because of where I was in life when I first encountered it.

Nu metal was metal with a strong rap influence. RATM fits this mold. Some bands like Godsmack and Deftones get lumped into this group but I don't think they deserve it.

Deftones certainly spawned out of it, but they grew and evolved. I'll still listen to them today, because they write good songs.

I always thought Godsmack was awful.

This is true.

When I think Nu Metal--

Limp Bizkit
Korn
Staind(at first)
Linkin Park
any others?

I would have said Deftones THEN but not NOW.