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re: A great article about why America blows...
Posted on 4/5/14 at 12:17 pm to Scruffy
Posted on 4/5/14 at 12:17 pm to Scruffy
quote:
The problem is you can't do that.
Again I think you can because even if i conceded everything that you just said, i still don't think that makes it okay for the corporate health care cartel to price gouge.
This post was edited on 4/5/14 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 4/5/14 at 12:20 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:Thats fine, but you need to quit focusing on the symptom and start focusing on the disease. We all need to do that.
i still don't think that makes it okay for the corporate health care cartel to price gouge.
Putting a bandaid on a tumor does nothing.
This post was edited on 4/5/14 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 4/5/14 at 12:21 pm to Scruffy
quote:
but you need to quit focusing on the symptom and start focusing on the disease. We all need to do that.
Putting a bandaid on tumor does nothing.
Again, i'm talking less about the health problems of the country and more about the business end relating to current realities.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 12:27 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:And I'm saying that focusing on that is a complete waste of time unless you focus on the health problems of our country as well.
Again, i'm talking less about the health problems of the country and more about the business end relating to current realities.
Fixing the business aspect is a useless endeavor that will ultimately result in making things worse unless you fix the health problems as well.
But, I don't think we will get anywhere with this discussion, so let's just move on.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 12:27 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:You made a "horseshite" claim earlier. When challenged, you issued the above nonresponse.quote:If it meant getting collective price negotiations to prevent gouging we can do pretty much whatever the hell you want with medmal
I have posted many times on this subject that I would propose taking current hospital/provider medmal insurance rates forward as is, no cuts, and employing them to fund a system which would double compensation rates or numbers for injured parties regardless of fault. European model.
Your objection to that is what?
Certainly your dodge must have been unintentional.
So, while you're reconsidering,
let's sweeten the pot with a few more details.
Time to settlement in the truly reformed EU-style system I referenced would be far faster. Settlements for injured parties could come in as little as 1/25th (or less) of the time required in our currently broken system.
Need more?
In cases involving true negligence, and which the client chose to pursue adversarially, there would be no caps on settlement, no limits of award. None!
Now why if your earlier claim about "horseshite" was true, would I ever back, propose, push any of this?
Legitimacy of argument comes down to motivation.
What's my motivation here?
What is your Tort Lawyer pals' motivation?
Posted on 4/5/14 at 12:39 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
What is your Tort Lawyer pals' motivation?
I am not a tort lawyer and i've already said that medmal isn't that big an issue to me, because I recognize the reality that (while it's a factor) it's not the main driver for the rising healthcare costs in this country, Corporate irresponsibility is. So I'm not dodging anything here, I'm happy conceding smaller issues to you if it will get the real problem fixed.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 12:41 pm to Scruffy
quote:
And I'm saying that focusing on that is a complete waste of time unless you focus on the health problems of our country as well.
Fixing the business aspect is a useless endeavor that will ultimately result in making things worse unless you fix the health problems as well.
I already said i didn't disagree with you on most of that stuff. We probably disagree about regulations on what goes in our food but that's for another thread.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 1:07 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I've never understood why self described conservatives are so hell bent on defending parasitic corporate practices like price gouging people in vulnerable positions.
i'll never understand why progressives think that people are so stupid that they shouldn't deal with their own choices
oh wait, i know why, they are elitists who believe in authoritarianism and that everyone should think like them, and if they can't, they should be protected under the veil of elitism (and fart smelling)
Posted on 4/5/14 at 1:08 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
but for the purposes of this thread I'm treating that as a separate issue.
you can't
we are a collection of a series of our choices
Posted on 4/5/14 at 1:10 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
i still don't think that makes it okay for the corporate health care cartel to price gouge.
do you think it's ok to force an ER to treat a person who has taken shitty care of their body and uses the ER as a primary care physician? that's the reason why the people who can/do pay (which is largely insurance), must pay more
Posted on 4/5/14 at 3:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:...yet still allow them to vote.
i'll never understand why progressives think that people are so stupid that they shouldn't deal with their own choices
Posted on 4/5/14 at 3:31 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:Please define the term. Because most high prices don't got to profit. They go to cover those that don't pay.
i still don't think that makes it okay for the corporate health care cartel to price gouge.
If that's gouging... I'd love to hear your solution.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 4:49 pm to Taxing Authority
And just to add a data point to the discussion...
Medical facilities averaged a 2.4% profit (34th)
Insurance and managed care... 2.2% (35th)
Legal services (ahem!)... 19.6% (3rd)
Medical facilities averaged a 2.4% profit (34th)
Insurance and managed care... 2.2% (35th)
Legal services (ahem!)... 19.6% (3rd)
Posted on 4/5/14 at 4:54 pm to Taxing Authority
The lawyers are donating heavily to the Iowa Senate race to the Dem candidate. They are scared that a Senate takeover by the GOP opens a door to tort limits.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 6:28 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:duck
I am not a tort lawyer
quote:dodge
i've already said that medmal isn't that big an issue to me
quote:weave
I recognize the reality that (while it's a factor)
quote:stumble
it's not the main driver for the rising healthcare costs in this country
quote:fall
So I'm not dodging anything here
quote:FAIL!
I'm happy conceding smaller issues to you
Your argument is that a room full of Ambulance Chasers earnestly state in a very earnest way that Ambulance Chasing has virtually nothing to do with healthcare costs. They are so earnest in fact, that even someone 'skeptical' as you might otherwise be swayed by such sincere earnestness.
Great!
You (and they) tend to quote studies offered by lawyers, and legal friendly organizations as supportive of minimal impact of tort. Yet while you're happy to criticize US Healthcare costs as >2-fold other countries like Britain, you ignore the fact that per capita direct costs of US HC Tort exceeds Britain's 60-fold. Average UK settlement is 1/10th that of the US, and Brits are 6X less likely to sue. So while 2X is terrible, you'd have it that 60X is not. And as eye opening as the 60-fold difference is, it ignores ignore the much, MUCH LARGER dynamic costs of tort.
Not clear as to WTF dynamic costs of tort references?
Let's consider some examples:
Take a wild guess why the US is the only country in the world in which CAT Scans are routinely obtained prior to appendectomy.
Take a guess as to why US C-Section rates are 300% - 600% higher than international recs.
The costs of just those two medical examples (even without incorporating any direct medical lawsuit costs) outstrip the entire all-encompassing tort impact claimed by virtually any legally funded/research/study/propaganda out there.
Of course, those examples are but a scratch of the service.
As we are talking about the same US medical tort industry which falsely sued the US silicon breast implant manufactures into insolvency, would you like to address the impact of tort on cost of other implants . . . like the hip implant prosthetics you earlier alluded to? Or on medical equipment? Or on pharmaceuticals?
Little impact, if at all, correct?
At least that's what your room full of personal injury lawyers would claim.
This post was edited on 4/5/14 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 4/5/14 at 8:02 pm to a want
quote:
One thing he misses: When the shite hits the fan, everybody looks to the U.S. The U.S. enables a lot of the freedoms enjoyed by most of those countries he's been to/lives in. Japan spends $0 on defense. That's because of the U.S. And I doubt his visits to eastern Europe would be quite so free and secure w/o the U.S.'s presence.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 8:07 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
americans love working their asses off for a crappy unhappy materialistic life style and will defend it to the death
quote:
Just don't infringe up on our right to own what ever type of gun we want and we are good with it.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 8:13 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
as long as the 1% are living well and we get our guns, we're good with it.
Posted on 4/5/14 at 8:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that's hilarious b/c of how western europe is still stuck in a major class structure that is terribly difficult to escape
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