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Started By
Message
Timing the market
Posted on 3/16/14 at 7:06 pm
Posted on 3/16/14 at 7:06 pm
I know timing the market is taboo to most investors. A fools errand it is. We simply can't predict what it's going to do day in and day out. Many professionals, and some of the best investors of all time abide by the "hold through thick and thin" rule.
Given that, for shits and giggles, I decided to do my own little (very unscientific) study to see if there was any advantage to jumping in and out of the market based on a simple benchmark. I've never read or seen any studies of such. I'll precede this by saying I did this in about 20-30 minutes using Google finance, so this is far from thorough.
That being said I think the results are pretty staggering.
Looking at the S&P 500 chart since 1974, I calculated returns of $10,000 if you were to jump in and out of the S&P when it passed it's 50 week moving average. So when it dipped below the 50 wk MA by about 5% you jumped out of the market, then jumped back in when it went above it's 50 wk MA by about 5%. I say about 5% because I waited for a substantial move past the 50 wk MA. It wasn't exactly 5%, but you get the picture.
So the returns are as follows:
Holding $10,000 through thick and thin since 1974, you would currently have about $182,400.
If you were to jump in and out at the 50 wk MA, you would currently have about $406,597.
Now I understand that this time frame includes 2 of the biggest market declines in history, which would give a big advantage to someone who jumped out before the tech and housing bubbles. But I don't think such big market declines are things of the past, and I don't think it's a stretch to assume we could see a few more over the next 40 years.
By no means am I advocating this strategy, and I'm sure I'll get bashed by some people here for even hinting at the notion. But I think the results are discussion worthy.
Given that, for shits and giggles, I decided to do my own little (very unscientific) study to see if there was any advantage to jumping in and out of the market based on a simple benchmark. I've never read or seen any studies of such. I'll precede this by saying I did this in about 20-30 minutes using Google finance, so this is far from thorough.
That being said I think the results are pretty staggering.
Looking at the S&P 500 chart since 1974, I calculated returns of $10,000 if you were to jump in and out of the S&P when it passed it's 50 week moving average. So when it dipped below the 50 wk MA by about 5% you jumped out of the market, then jumped back in when it went above it's 50 wk MA by about 5%. I say about 5% because I waited for a substantial move past the 50 wk MA. It wasn't exactly 5%, but you get the picture.
So the returns are as follows:
Holding $10,000 through thick and thin since 1974, you would currently have about $182,400.
If you were to jump in and out at the 50 wk MA, you would currently have about $406,597.
Now I understand that this time frame includes 2 of the biggest market declines in history, which would give a big advantage to someone who jumped out before the tech and housing bubbles. But I don't think such big market declines are things of the past, and I don't think it's a stretch to assume we could see a few more over the next 40 years.
By no means am I advocating this strategy, and I'm sure I'll get bashed by some people here for even hinting at the notion. But I think the results are discussion worthy.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 7:16 pm to rintintin
I'd like to see the figures if you bought when it's below and sold when it's above. That's the general goal of playing stocks.
PS maybe I'm dumb but if you buy in at a higher value then sell at a lower value how can your study be possible?
PS maybe I'm dumb but if you buy in at a higher value then sell at a lower value how can your study be possible?
This post was edited on 3/16/14 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 3/16/14 at 7:40 pm to rintintin
It's great you've figured out a strategy that would have worked in the past. But what will work in the future?
Posted on 3/17/14 at 5:28 pm to rintintin
The absolute best investment process to follow for maximizing returns is the buy when the market hits its low and sell when it hits its high.
It's knowing when those events occur that's a bitch.....
It's knowing when those events occur that's a bitch.....
Posted on 3/18/14 at 4:01 pm to rintintin
Did you take into account bid/ask spread and commissions or transaction fees?
Posted on 4/11/14 at 7:25 am to rintintin
Where would one go on google finance to recreate your research?
Posted on 4/12/14 at 9:36 am to rintintin
Are you using total returns?
Because the power of compounded, reinvested dividends needs to be accounted for in the buy and hold scenario.
You also need to account for commission costs and the massive short-term capital gains taxes over the time period.
Finally, too much of your gains are going to depend on your not participating in the 08/09 bear which could be considered a historical anomaly. How has your strategy performed from the 09 low to present?
Because the power of compounded, reinvested dividends needs to be accounted for in the buy and hold scenario.
You also need to account for commission costs and the massive short-term capital gains taxes over the time period.
Finally, too much of your gains are going to depend on your not participating in the 08/09 bear which could be considered a historical anomaly. How has your strategy performed from the 09 low to present?
Posted on 4/12/14 at 5:30 pm to rintintin
Good post and I agree with you that it is at least discussion worthy. This board has gotten stale since the buy and holders took over. And they have been right since 2008. But long term I think that market timing is possible. I had the good luck to listen to the right people and bail before the tech crash and in 2008. It's not impossible. Figuring out when to get back in is probably trickier than figuring out when to bail.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 2:48 pm to rintintin
I have been successfully timing the market for the last three years. I use about 5% like your study with the S&P 500 Index and PPG stock. They are in a 401K plan and there is no fees or commissions associated with "Fund Transfers" to and from the "Stable Value" fund. (cash) I am not overly aggressive and have averaged about 9 transfers each way on a yearly basis.
For the years 2011 and 2012 my return was greater than two times all of the plan's funds. For 2013 I would have been much better by simply holding PPG stock but I still had a 12% return and collectively my IRAs which I keep inactive returned collectively 28%.
My second jump in for an amount typically equal to or slightly greater than the first purchase will be at approximately a 12% drop from the top. I know one day that I will be caught in a big dip and it will take time to recover but knowing that I will never have bought at the top it is something that I can live with.
I think that you are on to something. If you have discipline for strict guidelines and can avoid high broker's fees you can prosper with your strategy.
For the years 2011 and 2012 my return was greater than two times all of the plan's funds. For 2013 I would have been much better by simply holding PPG stock but I still had a 12% return and collectively my IRAs which I keep inactive returned collectively 28%.
My second jump in for an amount typically equal to or slightly greater than the first purchase will be at approximately a 12% drop from the top. I know one day that I will be caught in a big dip and it will take time to recover but knowing that I will never have bought at the top it is something that I can live with.
I think that you are on to something. If you have discipline for strict guidelines and can avoid high broker's fees you can prosper with your strategy.
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