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re: Who was a better coach while at LSU, Dale Brown or Charlie Mac?
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:17 am to lsuallsportsfan
Posted on 1/9/14 at 10:17 am to lsuallsportsfan
quote:
Overall, Dale Brown was a personality that made LSU relevant on the national scene when they otherwise shouldn't have been based on performance.
Dale Brown's personality definitely made them more relevant. But even if he would've had Trent Johnson's personality, having a decade-long streak of NCAA tournament appearances (with some memorable runs) made them relevant on the national scene. If you look at the coaches that have accomplished that (and there are only about 15), just about every coach listed is a legend.
I wish I could comment on Charlie Mac, but he was before my time. Read some great stuff on him though.
1
Posted on 1/9/14 at 12:05 pm to Big EZ Tiger
quote:
But even if he would've had Trent Johnson's personality, having a decade-long streak of NCAA tournament appearances (with some memorable runs) made them relevant on the national scene.
IMO, the run was due in part to Dale's personality. His feud with Bobby Knight, his colorful press conferences. A lot of those teams were bubble teams but made it because of Dale.
Trent Johnson was not made for TV!
Posted on 1/9/14 at 12:06 pm to lsuallsportsfan
They were both great for LSU, but as you said, they both stayed too long.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 2:23 pm to CajunPhil
quote:
CajunPhil
The non-conference schedules included none of the directional schools or schools such as Kent or Fuhrman who didn't have the budgets or recruiting to compete. LSU played non-conference games with Texas A&M (ranked)....Oregon....Baylor....Miami....FSU....
Just curious if you looked up schedules and saw TAMU, Baylor, etc. and assumed those teams in the 60's & 70's were the same caliber as today? LSU regularly played Rice, TAMU, & Baylor usually at home, from the mid 60's to the mid 70's. These were considered pencilled-in victories for the Tigers. TAMU was terrible until the mid 70's when Emory Bellard brought in the Wishbone. FSU & Miami were not powerhouses in the 60's / 70's.
Nothing has really changed. Teams played rent-a-win teams in the 60's / 70's just like today. And just like today with Oregon, WVU, Va Tech, Wisconsin, back then we scheduled the occasional Home & Home vs. the likes of ND, USC, Nebraska, etc.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 2:33 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
This. I watched both. Dale Brown was a motivator and recruiter and the only coaching that got done was by his assistants. Remember, at the time the SEC basketball was essentially Kentucky with the other teams far behind, although Brown had a few years where the talent at LSU was exceptional.
Mac was a real good coach who coached against some exceptionally good football teams. Alabama (with the Bear) and Ole Miss (Archie Manning and Coach Johnny Vaught) were great back in those years.
Mac was a real good coach who coached against some exceptionally good football teams. Alabama (with the Bear) and Ole Miss (Archie Manning and Coach Johnny Vaught) were great back in those years.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 2:59 pm to TigerMike58
Wins 1960 - 1974
LSU - 117 (avg 7.8/season)
TAMU - 52 (avg 3.5/season)
Rice - 56 (avg 3.7/season)
Baylor - 63 (avg 4.2/season)
Miami - 80 (avg 5.3/season)
FSU - 78 (avg 5.2/season)
Oregon - 69 (avg 4.6/season)
CajunPhil, present performance does not guarantee past success...........
LSU - 117 (avg 7.8/season)
TAMU - 52 (avg 3.5/season)
Rice - 56 (avg 3.7/season)
Baylor - 63 (avg 4.2/season)
Miami - 80 (avg 5.3/season)
FSU - 78 (avg 5.2/season)
Oregon - 69 (avg 4.6/season)
CajunPhil, present performance does not guarantee past success...........
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 1/9/14 at 3:11 pm to lsuallsportsfan
The offseason hath cometh
Posted on 1/9/14 at 3:29 pm to ccomeaux
quote:
Dale had real opprotunity to win a NCAA tourney with Shaq, Jackson, et al on the same team. Give Johnny Jones Shaq and Chris Jackson and see what he could do.
WOW... just wow. all you others just let this one walk on by?
So riddle me this... where exactly was JJ when Dale had this opportunity with Shaq and CJ???
Posted on 1/9/14 at 3:41 pm to Sal Minella
quote:
IMO, the run was due in part to Dale's personality. His feud with Bobby Knight, his colorful press conferences. A lot of those teams were bubble teams but made it because of Dale.
Trent Johnson was not made for TV!
Ha...yeah, Trent was definitely not made for TV...or radio. Nice guy, but not Mr. Enthusiasm.
Anything is possible as far as a few of Dale's teams getting in. In 1986, they were plagued with injurie and the team was affected by the chicken pox in the heart of SEC play. Brown was told he should postpone games by the team physician and he didn't know if they would even have enough guys to suit up in some games. A couple of guys missed a few weeks. They still ended up with 20+ wins though (which gets some teams in anyway). The selection committee might have been sympathetic to that as well.
LSU was definitely given a gift of playing the first two rounds on their home court. But LSU went through the #1, #2 (in their backyard with five NBA players on the team), #3 and #6 seeds to reach the Final Four. So they definitely earned their achievement with their play.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 3:41 pm to lsuallsportsfan
17 years and one SEC Championship! 
Mac was mediocre. And I'm being generous. At least dale Brown had a chance at championships. I'm not a fan of Brown, but he was waaaay better than Cholly Mac (I tell my players to think of the football as a Burger King Whopper).
Mac was mediocre. And I'm being generous. At least dale Brown had a chance at championships. I'm not a fan of Brown, but he was waaaay better than Cholly Mac (I tell my players to think of the football as a Burger King Whopper).
Posted on 1/9/14 at 3:52 pm to dinosaur
quote:
Remember, at the time the SEC basketball was essentially Kentucky with the other teams far behind, although Brown had a few years where the talent at LSU was exceptional.
Brown did have to deal with Arkansas for about 1/4 of his time at LSU. They were a complete powerhouse when they came into the league. That was like during his last six years or so. I don't think he beat them until his last game at LSU (he had many last second losses to them). But for the rest of the time, UK was dominant and LSU was probably the next best team. Bama had some good teams back then too with Wimp Sanderson.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 6:02 pm to Big EZ Tiger
quote:
Brown did have to deal with Arkansas for about 1/4 of his time at LSU. They were a complete powerhouse when they came into the league. That was like during his last six years or so. I don't think he beat them until his last game at LSU (he had many last second losses to them).
WOW... I remembered differently, I thought we split most of those games with Arky. I was a student from 91-95 and Arky of course joined SEC in 92. But you were right, they crushed us during Brown's tenure (vs Nolan Richardson).
LSU vs. Arky, historical basketball record
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 1/9/14 at 6:13 pm to lsuallsportsfan
Both were outstanding and loved LSU. What is the deal with people feeling the need to make posts comparing everything? 
Posted on 1/9/14 at 6:42 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
And I know more about defense than Dietzel did.
sounds like you were a player. i think chollie mac was a defensive genius. damn, LSU was tough as nails and scoring against us was really really hard. if we just would have had better offenses; mac's 2 qb mandate, even with bert jones; his aversion to the passing game, etc. but i sure miss those defenses.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 6:46 pm to Penrod
quote:
Mac was mediocre. And I'm being generous
no, you're being stupid. mac was defensive mastermind and believed in run offense. sure, with better offenses we would have won more than one natty. but the word mediocre and charles mcclendon pisses me off;he was one of the classiest coaches to ever represent LSU. he also was INSTRUMENTAL in getting asst. coaches a retirement plan and better pay when he was the president of the national coaches assoc. after leaving LSU. in those days asst coaches weren't paid squat and had no retirement.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 7:08 pm to BayouDayGull
Dale was better for the simple fact that Dale conquered the Beast (kentucky) several times while Mac couldn't beat the Bear. LSU football was a regional brand under Mac, LSU basketball was a National brand under Dale.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 7:20 pm to lsuallsportsfan
For improvement in status of a program from start to pinnacle: Dale Brown without a doubt.
He was a great recruiter, had uniquely designed defenses that confused even really good teams, BUT had no clue about offensive strategy--street ball was as good as it got.
His failure to take Shaq, Chris Jackson, and Stanely Roberts farther in the NCAA was his the most obvious sign of his lack of ability to coach a whole team of raw talent.
Charlie Mac inherited a good program and kept it mediocre to good, but had great trouble with the big dogs of his era. re: 1969..great team. I was in the band, but there were better teams--Ole Miss beat with Manning.
He was a great recruiter, had uniquely designed defenses that confused even really good teams, BUT had no clue about offensive strategy--street ball was as good as it got.
His failure to take Shaq, Chris Jackson, and Stanely Roberts farther in the NCAA was his the most obvious sign of his lack of ability to coach a whole team of raw talent.
Charlie Mac inherited a good program and kept it mediocre to good, but had great trouble with the big dogs of his era. re: 1969..great team. I was in the band, but there were better teams--Ole Miss beat with Manning.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:26 pm to dante
quote:
Daddy Dale made LSU a national power, before bringing them back to mediocrity.
Basketball was always fun in the Dale Brown years, but then came the quick fall. The Randy Livingston injury didn't help matters...
Posted on 1/9/14 at 9:01 pm to Penrod
quote:
Mac was mediocre. And I'm being generous.
137 wins, 13 bowl appearances and induction in the College Football Hall of Fame are fairly strong rebuttals to your "opinion".
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