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Ethics Vs. Legality

Posted on 6/16/10 at 4:24 pm
Posted by rickyh
Positiger Nation
Member since Dec 2003
13019 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 4:24 pm
This distribution of revenue thing is getting under my skin. Who made Texas so special that they can dictate how the money is distributed? Should the SEC and other conferences follow suit and rape the smaller colleges within there conference? Something stinks to high heaven about this revelation. Is Texas the New York Yankees of collegiate sports. Something should be done about this situation before all conferences start considering it. The haves versus the have nots could boil down to ten programs nationwide is that what the NCAA wants to see. This thing going on with Texas is unethical. But is it legal?
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37153 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 4:29 pm to
is it that different than different conferences making different amounts of money?

I think it's short sighted of Texas because it's a fairly small amount of money in teh big picture and creates bad feelings within the conference

But I don't see how it's really all that different from different conferences making more or less money
Posted by BhamTigah
Lurker since Jan 2003
Member since Jan 2007
17381 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 4:30 pm to
It's legal as long as the other morons agree to it.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 4:57 pm to
I'm not an antitrust lawyer... oh wait, I am!.... so without getting technical because no one cares, you could make an antitrust argument against Texas that they are using their market power to create unfair competition in the market of the Big 12.

You'd probably lose, but the argument is there. they have essentially extorted the smaller schools to surrender their revenues. The problem is, it appears to be their idea, not Texas'.
Posted by wrlakers
Member since Sep 2007
5901 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 5:06 pm to
quote:

Who made Texas so special that they can dictate how the money is distributed?


Answer: The TV networks who make decisions based on market size. Edit: Add-and the schools who willingly agree to whatever Texas wants.

quote:

Should the SEC and other conferences follow suit and rape the smaller colleges within there conference?


I say yes. The smaller schools are not equal. They are lucky to be along for the ride. They don't expend the funds to make their programs major programs (like Texas, e.g.). Why should they reap when they do not sow?

quote:

Something stinks to high heaven about this revelation. Is


I disagree. This smells like capitalism. That's the way we do things here the in USA. If you don't like it, there are some empty boats heading back to Cuba.

quote:

Is Texas the New York Yankees of collegiate sports.


Answer: Sure. I say they don't owe any apologies for having built a winning and popular program.

quote:

Something should be done about this situation before all conferences start considering it.


I disagree. This is capitalism at work. See above.

quote:

The haves versus the have nots could boil down to ten programs nationwide is that what the NCAA wants to see.


I doubt it will be that simple. Also, this is the way capitalism works. See above.

quote:

This thing going on with Texas is unethical.


I disagree. There is no ethics code when it comes to TV deals. I doubt the Big XII had a code of ethics.

quote:

But is it legal?


Answer: Absolutely.

There is nothing inherent in the sport of football or in higher education generally that imposes an obligation on one institution to share the wealth with other institutions. Like it or not, all schools are not created equal. That is why graduates of Harvard make more than graduates of LSU. That's why graduates of LSU make more (on average, of course) than graduates of McNeese. In a free market society, the have nots are not transformed to haves just because they get to sit at the same table.
This post was edited on 6/16/10 at 5:09 pm
Posted by liquid rabbit
Boxtard BPB®© emeritus
Member since Mar 2006
64531 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 5:20 pm to
I would hope the SEC does not stoop to this level. It works fine with the equal sharing plan it currently has. The disfunctionality of the Big 12 is apparent because of the inequality.
Posted by wrlakers
Member since Sep 2007
5901 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 5:40 pm to
quote:

you could make an antitrust argument against Texas that they are using their market power to create unfair competition in the market of the Big 12.


I see your point, but I don't think the case is there because I don't think Texas has a big enough market share if you define the market as the states that comprise the Big XII. Once you throw in Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas, your market is pretty big. Then, if you're looking at the share that Texas has, how big could it be?

I don't think Texas is extorting anyone. It looks like they are all willing to do whatever Texas says because they would rather be hangers-on than members of a lesser conference.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 5:46 pm to
Well, OF COURSE Texas would define the market differently. thats every antitrust case in a nutshell - arguing over the definition of "market".

But I do think they are extorting the small schools - give me your revenues or I will bolt this conferece - forcing you to non-BCS status. It's not even subtle. The most pathetic thing is that apparently it was the small schools' IDEA. That's just sad.
Posted by LSUintheNW
At your mom’s house
Member since Aug 2009
36805 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 6:13 pm to
quote:

But I don't see how it's really all that different from different conferences making more or less money


the other conferences share equally right?
Posted by LSUintheNW
At your mom’s house
Member since Aug 2009
36805 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 6:17 pm to
quote:

But I do think they are extorting the small schools - give me your revenues or I will bolt this conferece - forcing you to non-BCS status. It's not even subtle.


not at all....

quote:

The most pathetic thing is that apparently it was the small schools' IDEA. That's just sad.


Considering what their fate would have been I am not at all surprised and don't think it is pathetic. It is quite sad, only because the others took em up on it but I think jobs would have been lost on some of those campuses and that, among other things, is some of what they were trying to save.

eta....I wonder if Kansas and Kansas state is scurrying right now trying to think of ways to improve the football team? That and that alone will save them from either going to the MWC or being a world away from their conference because lets face it...... The big ten doesn't want them. The fricking big 12 (texas, ou)wants to dump them. The big east will die soon so it could end up being the ACC if they want to accept kansas and all of their extra travel they would force on themselves.
This post was edited on 6/16/10 at 6:22 pm
Posted by rickyh
Positiger Nation
Member since Dec 2003
13019 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 6:20 pm to
Where is the idea that it was the smaller schools ides to get taken advantage of. I know that their options were limited, but the deal reeks. The NCAA really needs to look at this before others follow suit.
Posted by Sid in Lakeshore
Member since Oct 2008
41956 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 6:48 pm to
Which business model do you prefer? MLB or NFL?

Which produces a better product and therefore more lucrative contracts? I say revenue sharing is the way to go. JMHO.
Posted by Daigeaux
Mountains of East Tennessee
Member since Jul 2005
6065 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 6:54 pm to
The sad thing is that aTm had a chance to better themselves and kick UT in the nuts, and they didn't. Had aTm accepted the invite to the SEC...Texas would still be walking around with a dick in their arse. i have lost all respect when it comes down to aTm and OU. Yesterday, they totally reinforced what UT has been saying all along....You are my bitches...along with your seven stepsisters.

And don't give me this crap "aTm and OU did better themselves...look at what theyre getting."
Yeah? well lets see how its gonna all pan out in 3, 5, ten years when texas wants out....

This is only the first chapter of this dysfunctional family.
Posted by clamdip
Rocky Mountain High
Member since Sep 2004
20646 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 7:06 pm to
illegal?

this happens all the time in business. it is called leverage. One side usually has more of it than the other.

heck, sellers had it in the housing market from 2000-2006, and buyers have had it since then.

way of the world.
Posted by Earthquake 88
Mobile
Member since Jan 2010
3321 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 7:54 pm to
quote:
________________________________________
Which business model do you prefer? MLB or NFL?
________________________________________

quote:
________________________________________
Which produces a better product and therefore more lucrative contracts? I say revenue sharing is the way to go. JMHO.
________________________________________


Sid makes some serious sense here! Is it legal or not I don't know? All I know is the SEC shares, this has allowed the smaller or not as successful programs to build new facilities, recruit better, and grow their programs so they are not always the doormat. That is why the SEC is the best conference in the country and that's why they put 7 to 9 teams a year in bowls and win the bulk of their bowl games. Being in a conference where say Bama and Florida were the only two good teams and the rest are just average does not sound so good to me. I like a conference where every Saturday any team in the SEC can have a chance to beat the other team or at least keep it close and make a game out of it. I know that the SEC told Vandy about 6 or 7 years ago they needed to take the earnings they were making off the SEC and upgrade all their facilities and get serious about their sports programs or they were going to kick them out. Well, it appears to me that Vandy has kicked it in gear to get better in all sports. I remember taking a tour of the facilities at Arkansas when they first came over from the SWC. That place looked like a dump compared to what they have now which is real nice facilities that ultimately will help them compete. I think trying to get all 12 SEC teams to be the best they can be is the only business model that makes sense to me and sharing is the only way to achieve this. Besides, you can get a bonus or extra cash by going to a better bowl, winning in other sports, and promoting your own sports networks. I have no problem at all to pay for view a LSU game that is not on TV.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37153 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 7:56 pm to
quote:

But I don't see how it's really all that different from different conferences making more or less money



the other conferences share equally right?



television revenues? no, they all have different contracts - we must not be on the same wavelength

Posted by LSUintheNW
At your mom’s house
Member since Aug 2009
36805 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 7:59 pm to
I was under the impression the big 12 was the only conference to share revenues unequally. My bad.....

Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37153 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 8:04 pm to
probably my fault, i'm not being clear

so far as i know only the big 12 shares TV revenue unequally (but I could be wrong)

I just meant that we already have unequal revenue distribution in college football between different conferences - so it doesn't strike me as either bad ethics or legality (just bad judgment) to have unequal revenue distribution within teh same conference

the idea of having unequal revenue distribution within the same conference really only strikes me as bad business (because the amount of money is fairly small and not worth the dissension it causes)
Posted by LSUintheNW
At your mom’s house
Member since Aug 2009
36805 posts
Posted on 6/16/10 at 8:11 pm to
quote:

so far as i know only the big 12 shares TV revenue unequally (but I could be wrong)


that's the impression I was under.

quote:

the idea of having unequal revenue distribution within the same conference really only strikes me as bad business (because the amount of money is fairly small and not worth the dissension it causes)


agreed
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