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Started By
Message
For everyone who says we HAVE to draft defense
Posted on 3/30/09 at 10:39 am
Posted on 3/30/09 at 10:39 am
We have improved our defense drastically over the offseason. First, there is Greg Williams. We will get Porter back from injuries, signed J. Greer, P. Spicer, D. Sharper and Rod Coleman. We also re-signed J. Vilma and might re-sign M. McKenzie.
How did we upgrade the offense, by signing Heath Evans and Dan Campbell???
Now go ahead and say we had the #1 offense last year, but that didn’t even get us into the playoffs. Now look at the top offensive “passing” teams that made the playoffs or Super Bowl. Minnesota had R. Moss, C. Carter and J. Reed catching 300 passes, but they also had Robert Smith and O. Smith (pre-wizzinator) running the ball. St. Louis had the greatest show on turf, but Marshall Faulk still ran for almost 1400 yards. Same for Indy when Joe Addai split carries and still racked up over a 1000 yards. New Orleans needs a true running back and upgrade at RT.
The Saints have a chance to make a real run at a championship this year. Besides A. Curry, B. J. Raji, Brian Orakpo, A. Maybin, or P. Jerry, I don’t see a defensive player who could be drafted and make an immediate impact or start over the player already there. (I agree that Shanle sucks, but is Matthews or Laurinites (sp?) that much better? IDK?) I don’t think we have a shot of getting any of these guys besides P. Jerry.
An offensive player “CAN” be drafted and make an immediate impact on this year by upgrading a position. M. Oher, A. Smith, E. Monroe and C. Wells make the immediate impact this year and could get us over the hump.
I’m not saying that this is how it has to go, only that I’m tired of seeing the blanket post that say “we have to draft defense” or “pick the best defensive player available”. These are short sided and closed minded IMO.
How did we upgrade the offense, by signing Heath Evans and Dan Campbell???
Now go ahead and say we had the #1 offense last year, but that didn’t even get us into the playoffs. Now look at the top offensive “passing” teams that made the playoffs or Super Bowl. Minnesota had R. Moss, C. Carter and J. Reed catching 300 passes, but they also had Robert Smith and O. Smith (pre-wizzinator) running the ball. St. Louis had the greatest show on turf, but Marshall Faulk still ran for almost 1400 yards. Same for Indy when Joe Addai split carries and still racked up over a 1000 yards. New Orleans needs a true running back and upgrade at RT.
The Saints have a chance to make a real run at a championship this year. Besides A. Curry, B. J. Raji, Brian Orakpo, A. Maybin, or P. Jerry, I don’t see a defensive player who could be drafted and make an immediate impact or start over the player already there. (I agree that Shanle sucks, but is Matthews or Laurinites (sp?) that much better? IDK?) I don’t think we have a shot of getting any of these guys besides P. Jerry.
An offensive player “CAN” be drafted and make an immediate impact on this year by upgrading a position. M. Oher, A. Smith, E. Monroe and C. Wells make the immediate impact this year and could get us over the hump.
I’m not saying that this is how it has to go, only that I’m tired of seeing the blanket post that say “we have to draft defense” or “pick the best defensive player available”. These are short sided and closed minded IMO.
8
Posted on 3/30/09 at 10:45 am to Suntiger
I'd be ok with a first round OT, but every year there are quality RB's who fall into later rounds. If we decide to address that issue via draft, i'd hope it was during the later rounds.
Just my 2 cents
Just my 2 cents
Posted on 3/30/09 at 10:49 am to Bigpoppat
I agree.
You can get a big, powerful back in the later rounds. But if there is a quailty offensive tackle at 14, grab him.
If not, I like trading down into the latter part of the first round and picking up a mid-to-late round pick.
You can get a big, powerful back in the later rounds. But if there is a quailty offensive tackle at 14, grab him.
If not, I like trading down into the latter part of the first round and picking up a mid-to-late round pick.
Posted on 3/30/09 at 10:58 am to jbeard
witcha tiger, I'm not on Wells or Moreno basically cuz I don't rate them as being worthy of a #14. If I rated them top ten I'd say no prob. OT's might now be the top 1st Rd commodity. A boatload last year, maybe 4 of top 10 this year. 6 in the 1st Rd would be NO surprise. That's a difficulty (having 3 OTs) I wouldn't mind dealing with at all.
PS- Crabtree would fall into can't pass on territory maybe but not Maclin, Nicks, etc
AND, altogether now, "Let's trade down"
PS- Crabtree would fall into can't pass on territory maybe but not Maclin, Nicks, etc
AND, altogether now, "Let's trade down"
This post was edited on 3/30/09 at 11:01 am
Posted on 3/30/09 at 11:04 am to jbeard
I've been on this box for a while and completely agree with the primary premise. I also agree that we can get a 'power back' in later rounds, but disagree in that is what we need; we need an inside runner, be it a 'power back' or otherwise ( LT led the league not long ago in TDs and he most definitely is not a 'power back' ). That's why I am so high on Moreno; a guy who fits our offense and can run inside & block. If he turns out to be the type of franchise back I think he'll be, it would be wise to pick him up; such is the gamble!
Posted on 3/30/09 at 11:06 am to Suntiger
quote:
We have improved our defense drastically over the offseason.
I've tried to convince myself of that for the past few offseasons.
Posted on 3/30/09 at 11:08 am to Suntiger
quote:
We have improved our defense drastically over the offseason
Drastically??? I don't think so. While we have made a little improvement talent wise, how much so is yet to be determined. GW is a big move in the right direction, but the talent on the D is still a questionmark.
quote:
Now go ahead and say we had the #1 offense last year, but that didn’t even get us into the playoffs
Here we are in 100% agreement. Our #1 ranking is a deceptive number. That was due to our extremely high passing offense statistics. Alot of factors contribute to that: Brees, Payton's creative formations, and Payton's inability to call a balanced offense. So when you pass 635 times with Brees and the talent on the O, then of course the total numbers will be high. The problem is that the offense wasn't efficient. That's the part that often gets overlooked. Too many times we couldn't sustain drives; we would score fast on big plays (thus the pasing yards) or on 4th quarter come backs.
So I would have not problem drafting a LT (NOT A. SMITH!!!!) if one should fall there, but I still would prefer Jenkins for a FS conversion.
Posted on 3/30/09 at 11:43 am to GFP
we have 2 great ot dont need another one
Posted on 3/30/09 at 11:44 am to RelocatedPelican
quote:
I've been on this box for a while and completely agree with the primary premise. I also agree that we can get a 'power back' in later rounds, but disagree in that is what we need; we need an inside runner, be it a 'power back' or otherwise ( LT led the league not long ago in TDs and he most definitely is not a 'power back' ). That's why I am so high on Moreno; a guy who fits our offense and can run inside & block. If he turns out to be the type of franchise back I think he'll be, it would be wise to pick him up; such is the gamble!
You do realize Sean P is still calling plays for the Saints right? Do we need a first round back to touch the ball 10-15 plays a game? Is it really going to be that much better than when Thomas does it? Let's say he averages 1 yard better per carry....that's what an extra 15 yards/game. That certainly seems worthy of a first round paycheck to me.
Posted on 3/30/09 at 11:57 am to Suntiger
quote:
We have improved our defense drastically over the offseason
hmmmmm I've never heard that coming out of Airline Drive before
I wouldn't be shocked if they went offense in the 1st round btw
Posted on 3/30/09 at 12:00 pm to s-man
quote:
we have 2 great ot dont need another one
Are you saying Stinky is great??? He's average at best.
quote:
Drafting one those two backs is not like drafting AP who was a blue chip stud right out of the gates.
I'm more than prepared to go with Thomas, Bell, and Bush in the backfield
They don't have to bee an AP, He could be Jonathan Stewart (Smash and Dash) or Brandon Jacobs who gives us an efficent running game. That would be Wells (or Moreno for Pelican) and Bush.
quote:
For the life of me I still don't know how people aren't on the Pierre Thomas Bandwagon yet.
Because he only has good games against the bottom ranked defenses, can't convert short yardage plays and hasn't demonstrated the ability to carry the ball for an entire season even though he beat out Rashard Mendenhall at Illinois.
quote:
You do realize Sean P is still calling plays for the Saints right? Do we need a first round back to touch the ball 10-15 plays a game?
Do you realize that Payton was the coach when Duece went for 1000+ yards when spliting carries with R. Bush in 2006? Oh yeah, we also went to the NFC Championship that year with a strong running game.
Apparently Payton doesn't have as much faith in PT as some posters on here do.
Posted on 3/30/09 at 12:13 pm to Suntiger
And this is why you are a fan, not FO personnel....
Posted on 3/30/09 at 12:19 pm to s-man
quote:The same SP in 2006 that had the Saints @ 19th in rushing & 12th in rushing attempts?
You do realize Sean P is still calling plays for the Saints right? Do we need a first round back to touch the ball 10-15 plays a game? Is it really going to be that much better than when Thomas does it? Let's say he averages 1 yard better per carry....that's what an extra 15 yards/game. That certainly seems worthy of a first round paycheck to me.
SP needs a back he feels comfortable with giving the ball to a number of times a game. Deuce's health became an issue, Bush is better with his hands on the ball from catching it or on returns, and its hard to be sold on PT, who's numbers are a bit decieving, particularly considering what defenses they came against.
A franchise type back who fits all aspects of the offense ( receiving, pass blocking, and of course running the ball ) can take over the carries; not split them. KM has been compared to Cadillac and LT by various scouting reports ( I added in the AP comparision ) and is the top RB on the board in many outlets. I don't believe anyone denies his ability in the open field, his receiving abilities out of the back field, nor his exceptional pass blocking. The other aspects of KM are his inside running, and to quote SP, "durability, toughness". KM is referred to by Richt @ UGA as 'powerful', the same description SP gave for the type of RB the Saints need despite not fitting the body description most associated with a powerful back.
Posted on 3/30/09 at 12:27 pm to RelocatedPelican
quote:
The same SP in 2006 that had the Saints @ 19th in rushing & 12th in rushing attempts?
Deuce 2006:
244 attempts for 1057 yards 4.3/carry
(RetardPelican- that comes out to 15 carries/game)
Thomas 2008:
129 for 625 yards for 4.8 yards/carry....just how many more yards/carry do you think your boyfriend can manage???? I would argue that the play calling is one of if not the biggest reason our running game numbers are down.
P.S. If you need help with the math....let me know.
Posted on 3/30/09 at 1:04 pm to Suntiger
No offense but Coleman/Sharper are washed up, period. Spicer is a reserve at best. Greer is a unknown in this type of defense, he came from a Cover 2 scheme but his strength is supposedly man. I bet the Saints thought that when they got Jason David too, just saying. We also cut arguably our best defensive player in Mckenzie. Charles Grant and Will Smith will likely be on four game suspensions.
I'd like to see the Saints trade back, then take the best available player in the draft. If Wells is at, say 20, take him. Great value pick there, IMO. So, if the Saints pick a defensive guy at #14 and was suppose to be a 20 something pick, can't really blame them. They're damn near in the position of having to draft defense. But to say our defense is vastly improved based on offseason moves is pretty dumb, IMO.
I'd like to see the Saints trade back, then take the best available player in the draft. If Wells is at, say 20, take him. Great value pick there, IMO. So, if the Saints pick a defensive guy at #14 and was suppose to be a 20 something pick, can't really blame them. They're damn near in the position of having to draft defense. But to say our defense is vastly improved based on offseason moves is pretty dumb, IMO.
This post was edited on 3/30/09 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 3/30/09 at 1:13 pm to s-man
quote:472 attempts for 1761 yards, per NFL.com. Evidentally you need help with math: 472 / 16 == 29.5 as a team ( and you are wrong on Deuce's numbers too - 244 / 15 == 16.3, as he didn't play one game ).
s-man
Again, I didn't say to share carries with Bush or PT; I clearly stated a back good enough to take those carries away. A back that can warrant the better part of 30 carries a game is definitely worth a 1st round pick. FYI, since you obviously have no clue about it, AP averages 20 apg and LT averages 20.9, over their respective careers. Guess they weren't worth a 1st either?
Check who your bossum buddy ran against here. Hint: outside of TB, he faced the bottom half, mostly bottom 3rd, of NFL defenses. Color me sold!
Basically, complete fail of a post.
This post was edited on 3/30/09 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 3/30/09 at 1:18 pm to Suntiger
WE HAVE JO LON DUNBAR!!!! NO WORRIES!!@!
Posted on 3/30/09 at 1:24 pm to Suntiger
If Andre Smith is still there, we need to take his big,fat,lazy arse!
This post was edited on 3/30/09 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 3/30/09 at 1:29 pm to Bad Cat
the frick?
Posted on 3/30/09 at 1:31 pm to RelocatedPelican
quote:
A back that can warrant the better part of 30 carries a game is definitely worth a 1st round pick.
show me a 480 carry a year back.
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