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164 years ago today: "No terms but unconditional and immediate surrender can be accepted."

Posted on 2/16/26 at 7:25 am
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
70550 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 7:25 am
In early 1862 the Confederacy’s entire western defense depended on a simple geographic reality: rivers were highways. The Tennessee and Cumberland Rivers ran north into the Ohio River, meaning Union gunboats could sail straight into the Deep South if the entrances weren’t blocked. To stop that, the South built two forts only twelve miles apart - one on each river - forming the center of their defensive line across Kentucky and Tennessee.

Grant aimed directly at that weak point.

At the Battle of Fort Henry, guarding the Tennessee River, the Confederates were already in trouble before the battle began. The fort sat on low ground that flooded after winter rains, leaving many guns unusable and the position exposed to naval fire. On February 6, 1862, Andrew Foote’s ironclads bombarded the fort while Grant’s infantry marched nearby. The gunboats alone forced surrender in barely over an hour; most of the defenders escaped to Fort Donelson.

The Tennessee River was the Confederacy’s back door. With Fort Henry gone, Union forces could steam south into Tennessee and Alabama, bypassing defensive lines entirely. The Confederate western front was no longer a wall, Grant had punched a giant gap through it.

Grant immediately turned east toward the fort that actually held the line together: Fort Donelson, located on the Cumberland River. Donelson protected the direct water route to Nashville and anchored the entire Confederate position in the state. For several bitter winter days the Union army surrounded it. On February 15, the Confederate army launched a powerful breakout attack and opened an escape road, but command confusion halted the retreat. Grant counterattacked, closed the trap, and the next morning demanded “unconditional and immediate surrender.” Around 12,000–15,000 Confederates were captured - an entire army, the first of three Grant would capture intact during the war.

Fort Donelson was the keystone for the Confederates in the Western Theater. Once it fell, the Confederates could no longer defend Nashville or even most of Tennessee. Kentucky became securely Union territory, the Southern defensive line in the West collapsed, and the Union gained permanent river highways for future campaigns deeper into the Confederacy.

Together the battles worked like a one-two punch: Fort Henry opened the rivers, and Fort Donelson forced the Confederacy to abandon an entire region. Overnight, the Union went from stalemate to offensive war in the West and Grant became a national hero.

Thus, "Unconditional Surrender" Grant entered the national consciousness....164 years ago today.

Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
10354 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 7:42 am to
Yankees were, and still are, spineless, money hungry, cowards that have other men fight their battles.
Posted by Violent Hip Swivel
Member since Aug 2023
8983 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 8:12 am to
quote:

Yankees were, and still are, spineless, money hungry, cowards that have other men fight their battles.


Are you romanticizing that most southern soldiers were happy to be there and weren't like "this is bullshite, I want to go home."
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
36574 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 8:17 am to
Southern soldiers were not fighting on behalf of rich oligarchs too?
Posted by Frac the world
The Centennial State
Member since Oct 2014
21113 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 8:18 am to
frick Grant
Posted by Schleynole
Member since Sep 2022
1493 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 8:19 am to
Except Forrest had ran Grant off the field that day. Forrest was shocked when his commanding officers were talking about unconditional surrender so he took his men and every man that wanted to leave and they left. They let the terrible confederate officers surrender.

Posted by geauxtigers87
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2011
27230 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 8:21 am to
quote:


Southern soldiers were not fighting on behalf of rich oligarchs too?


they conveniently gloss over this point every single time

natchez mississippi had the largest concentration of millionaires on earth before the war
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 8:22 am
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
39872 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 8:22 am to
Gideon Pillow was a moron.
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
41062 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 8:51 am to
quote:

they conveniently gloss over this point every single time

natchez mississippi had the largest concentration of millionaires on earth before the war


It's wild. They were traitors to their country with even more ignoble motives for fighting.
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
73749 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 8:57 am to
quote:

natchez mississippi had the largest concentration of millionaires on earth before the war
Now it has the largest concentration of millionaires in Adams County, Mississippi.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
70550 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 9:04 am to
quote:

Except Forrest had ran Grant off the field that day.


He had not. He was just a small part of the attack against Grant's right on the 15th.

While Forrest definitely played his role in pushing McClernand's poorly positioned division back, he and the infantry were eventually blunted by the units of Lew Wallace and John M. Thayer. The Confederates had opened a corridor to escape but Gideon Pillow thought his forces too disorganized to take advantage of it. Meanwhile, despite his own disorganization and confusion, Grant acted decisively and ordered his own units to counterattack.

"The side which attacks first will be victorious." Those were Grant's words on the afternoon of February 15, 1862. He was correct. He attacked first while Pillow fell back into his works.

Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
36574 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 10:14 am to
I've maintained that after Shiloh and New Orleans, the South should have surrendered. Once the Union had control of the Tennessee Mississippi and Cumberland Rivers the South was dead in the water. New Orleans controlled access to the sea. Control of the other two meant that the Union could float and land armies into the heart of Confederate territory.

Everything that then happened in the Eastern theater was gratuitous and really.........needless from a strategic aspect.
Posted by theunknownknight
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
60666 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 10:21 am to
Lincoln was a war criminal

The South had every right to secede
Posted by theunknownknight
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
60666 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 10:23 am to
quote:

Southern soldiers were not fighting on behalf of rich oligarchs too?


Yea, Southerners had no reason to fight invaders burning down their cities other than rich oligarchs paying them to
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
10354 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 10:48 am to
quote:

Are you romanticizing that most southern soldiers were happy to be there and weren't like "this is bullshite, I want to go home."


WTF?

I'm talking about forced conscription and the ability of rich Yankees buying their way out or buying their sons way out.

I'm talking about paying immigrants right off the boat with no job, not speaking English, money, and 3 hots and a cot to go shoot Johnny Reb.

Go learn some history.
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
10354 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 10:50 am to
quote:


Southern soldiers were not fighting on behalf of rich oligarchs too?


Are you positing that a 45% tariff only affected rich plantation owners and not all Southern farmers?
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
10354 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 10:53 am to
quote:

They were traitors to their country


What an odd way to say leaving a relationship you were being extorted from is traitorous.

Also the federal government was not created to be above the States. If you do not understand how, why, and the purpose for the creation of the Fed Gov, you should not call those leaving in peace traitors.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
70550 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 10:54 am to
quote:

Everything that then happened in the Eastern theater was gratuitous and really.........needless from a strategic aspect.



Which a lot of people have ignored up until relatively recently. While the larger and more famous battles of the conflict were fought in Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania, the most strategically significant engagements were fought in Tennessee, Mississippi, and Georgia. Grant and other Union commanders out west were less concerned about capturing cities and more concerned about controlling rivers, railroads, and destroying entire enemy armies.

Grant was a "big picture" kinda guy and the men he promoted up to high levels of command (such as Sherman, Thomas, and Sheridan) were of similar mindsets.
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 10:55 am
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
41062 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 11:05 am to
quote:

Also the federal government was not created to be above the States.


How'd that work out?

quote:

If you do not understand how, why, and the purpose for the creation of the Fed Gov, you should not call those leaving in peace traitors.


A. The Articles of Confederation were dead decades before the Civil War and the union had been established.
B. The CSA started the war. Remember those mostly peaceful cannons at Sumter?
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
70550 posts
Posted on 2/16/26 at 11:08 am to
quote:

Also the federal government was not created to be above the States.


Article VI, Clause 2 of the U.S Constitution of 1787 would disagree with you there. The Supremacy Clause clearly states that federal law trumps state law.
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