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Electrical - ungrounded outlet
Posted on 8/12/25 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 8/12/25 at 4:05 pm
My front door has two outlets. We have used it for Christmas lights for decades. Just discovered they are not grounded. There is no wire.
Quick google says I can install a GFCI and it will be fine. Is this correct? I was planning to do so anyway which is why I tested.
Also - I only need to install 1 GFCI in a series and all outlets are protected? Read that as well, but will still put GFCI in both.
More info - the outlet and switch it connects to inside in the foyer is grounded so I assume just 2 wires were pulled for the outlets outside.
Thanks.
Quick google says I can install a GFCI and it will be fine. Is this correct? I was planning to do so anyway which is why I tested.
Also - I only need to install 1 GFCI in a series and all outlets are protected? Read that as well, but will still put GFCI in both.
More info - the outlet and switch it connects to inside in the foyer is grounded so I assume just 2 wires were pulled for the outlets outside.
Thanks.
4
Posted on 8/12/25 at 4:32 pm to highpockets
You could also use a GFCI adapter that plugs in to the outlet when you hang the lights.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 9:46 pm to highpockets
I’ve installed a GFIC on a 2 wire system and added a jumper wire from the ground screw to the neutral screw. Both do back to the same neutral bus bar in the panel. The city inspector couldn’t tell the difference with his tester. However, it does only give you one pathway back to the neutral bus bar, and is frowned upon in some locales. YMMV.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 9:56 pm to mingoswamp
quote:
added a jumper wire from the ground screw to the neutral screw
That's a bootleg ground and it's actually more of a hazard than no ground at all.
This post was edited on 8/12/25 at 9:57 pm
Posted on 8/13/25 at 7:22 am to Clames
That's a bootleg ground and it's actually more of a hazard than no ground at all.
No doubt, & told my uncle that it is against code. It did get the inspector off his back, allowing my uncle to remain in his home of 50 years.
Sometimes you have to find a way
No doubt, & told my uncle that it is against code. It did get the inspector off his back, allowing my uncle to remain in his home of 50 years.
Sometimes you have to find a way
Posted on 8/13/25 at 9:00 am to mingoswamp
quote:
added a jumper wire from the ground screw to the neutral screw
Don't do that. This relies on the neutral and ground being bonded and on the wiring being correct in a place where there are already wiring issues. Additionally, if the neutral wire breaks, then any metal parts on the outlet and box are now energized with 120 volts through anything plugged into the circuit.
quote:
However, it does only give you one pathway back to the neutral bus bar, and is frowned upon in some locales.
By frowned upon, you mean a code violation, and by some locales, you mean every locale that follows the NEC guidelines.
Posted on 8/13/25 at 9:06 am to mingoswamp
That why I have a circuit analyzer that can detect bootleg grounds. I owned a house built before grounded recepticals was a thing, and had a few bootleg grounds when I bought the house. Replaced all the recepticals with either ungrounded ones or GFCI's in areas where I would need to plug in a grounded plug. Those were thankfully few as I had to replace the outlet to make those fit.
Posted on 8/13/25 at 9:08 am to highpockets
quote:
Also - I only need to install 1 GFCI in a series and all outlets are protected? Read that as well, but will still put GFCI in both.
Correct, as long as you install it in the correct location within the series. The GFCI will only cutoff the power from that outlet to anything up the line, but won't do anything to protect the outlets that are between the GFCI and the breaker.
With some of the crazy shite I have seen in my 2 houses, if I do not know with 100% certainty, I would install 2 as you are planning. That and when you have a plug that is on a series with a GFCI suddenly stop working, for whatever reason the last thing you look at is the GFCI further up the series
Posted on 8/13/25 at 9:25 am to Weekend Warrior79
With no ground he'll have to install a GFCI receptical at each outlet. Per code, they should be labeled as not having a ground too. Some GFCI's come with a little sheet of label stickers for this.
Posted on 8/14/25 at 10:33 am to Clames
Thanks for the feedback, once it is done, I can install my Govee permanent lights :)
Posted on 8/14/25 at 5:48 pm to highpockets
Not sure if you can get a real ground wire ran to your two outlets. Probably not an easy task. If you can fish a new 12AWG NM-B with ground cable through the wall to each outlet and back to the circuit breaker, that would be ideal. I have fished cables from basements into the walls above and from attics into the walls below. I've also ran cables from a basement through a "chase run" to an attic two floors above and then down the walls (not fun running a wire in an attic down an exterior wall).
Our current house has a short post mounted AC outlet about 75' away from the house inside the middle of a circlular concrete driveway in a wooded area. I have a couple of WiFi cameras and a half dozen spot lights powered from that outlet via underground cables and waterproof boxes.
After testing the outlet to see if it was wired correctly, I realized only two wires were ran to that outlet and the outlet didn't have a ground wire and it also was not GFCI protected.
In order to run a new cable with ground wire from the house to the post mounted outlet would require crossing a concrete driveway. So I just purchased a new 8' copper ground rod and drove it into the ground next to the outlet using my impact driver and sledge hammer. Then I ran a ground wire from the ground rod and terminated it on the outlet which I changed out to a new GFCI outlet. My fix was relatively easy.
Our current house has a short post mounted AC outlet about 75' away from the house inside the middle of a circlular concrete driveway in a wooded area. I have a couple of WiFi cameras and a half dozen spot lights powered from that outlet via underground cables and waterproof boxes.
After testing the outlet to see if it was wired correctly, I realized only two wires were ran to that outlet and the outlet didn't have a ground wire and it also was not GFCI protected.
In order to run a new cable with ground wire from the house to the post mounted outlet would require crossing a concrete driveway. So I just purchased a new 8' copper ground rod and drove it into the ground next to the outlet using my impact driver and sledge hammer. Then I ran a ground wire from the ground rod and terminated it on the outlet which I changed out to a new GFCI outlet. My fix was relatively easy.
This post was edited on 8/14/25 at 6:02 pm
Posted on 8/18/25 at 12:23 pm to 98eagle
Thanks again all installed 5 GFCI outlets and new covers yesterday.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 11:46 am to 98eagle
quote:
So I just purchased a new 8' copper ground rod and drove it into the ground next to the outlet using my impact driver and sledge hammer.
But you are still missing the ground path back to the panel. Driving a ground rod does not negate the safety need for the two return paths (neutral/ground) to the panel. Anything grounded plugged into that outlet can still get a hot chassis. Electrically speaking the ground rod is not what provides the “ground” from a safety standpoint.
You pretty have a lightning ground, not a safety ground.
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