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Started By
Message
few things don't pass the smell test about the crash
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:35 pm
1. not releasing the third name operating the helicopter.
2. ATC had one person doing 2 jobs b/c a co-worker left for the night
3. helicopter being at 400 feet when the limit was 200
I'm no aviation expert but if the plane is about to land at that point at 200 mph or so, how does it get hit randomly at the same height with a helicopter way off its course? It seems like it would be very difficult to hit the plane even if you tried but almost as random as finding the proverbial needle in several acres of haystacks if accident.
one more thing, I'm seeing a course map making it appear to be a head on collision. The video makes it look like a t-bone crash
2. ATC had one person doing 2 jobs b/c a co-worker left for the night
3. helicopter being at 400 feet when the limit was 200
I'm no aviation expert but if the plane is about to land at that point at 200 mph or so, how does it get hit randomly at the same height with a helicopter way off its course? It seems like it would be very difficult to hit the plane even if you tried but almost as random as finding the proverbial needle in several acres of haystacks if accident.
one more thing, I'm seeing a course map making it appear to be a head on collision. The video makes it look like a t-bone crash
18
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:37 pm to carguymatt
quote:
not releasing the third name operating the helicopter.
Start here.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:38 pm to carguymatt
there is a lot more to this, and I believe it had little to do with ATC. There were VFR conditions, which mean it was a clear night, and planes were easy to see.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:40 pm to Mandtgr47
Not to mention, Blackhawk helo pilots of all stripes are well versed in flying without ATC direction, anyway.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:41 pm to carguymatt
quote:Family requested that they not. Not sure how enforcable that can be. Seems like someone would leak it that knows. Who knows!
1. not releasing the third name operating the helicopter.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:42 pm to carguymatt
What are the latest theories about the rationale for withholding the third name? The NY Times claims it’s likely being withheld to prevent blowback due to Trump’s DEI comments but it seems fairly obvious there’s something much deeper here.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:44 pm to carguymatt
quote:
1. not releasing the third name operating the helicopter.
Still.
Plays into what I said about the KNOWN trans pilot, with the VA AR, who flies UH-60's, but wasn't on that flight?
Surely, THAT person knows, so why not say "Hey, it was 'her name here', not me." or something to that effect? But still nothing.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:45 pm to VoxDawg
she was already on her own, due to it being VFR (visual flight rules). ATC had given guidance, calling traffic, but in VFR conditions they are on their own. I know this because I used to be in ATC.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:46 pm to Mandtgr47
It definitely points towards Blackhawk pilot error. Or worse.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 6:55 pm to Mandtgr47
quote:
I used to be in ATC.
Given your experience: should the ATC have noticed that the helo was way above it's operating ceiling of 200 ft?
I did not notice ATC saying anything to PAT25 about it's altitude. I know he was doing two people's jobs that night, but that small detail might have avoided the collision if he was able to tell the helo to descend and do a quick about face.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:10 pm to mtntiger
quote:
ATC saying anything to PAT25 about it's altitude. I know he was doing two people's jobs that night, but that small detail might have avoided the collision if he was able to tell the helo to descend and do a quick about face.
The transponder recordings show the helo at 200 feet, then popping up to 300’ right before impact. But the actual videos sure look like the helo descends to strike the jet. If the transponder recordings are right then ATC had very little time to notice, and they would not necessarily have been looking because the pilot said he had visual contact.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:13 pm to carguymatt
quote:
1. not releasing the third name operating the helicopter.
Why won't Hegseth or Trump release it?
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:15 pm to carguymatt
Sure looks like it was aimed right at the plane.....strange.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:16 pm to TakingStock
Well since there's now been another crash, and the demoncraps want nothing more than for Trump to look bad.......
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:17 pm to mtntiger
quote:
Given your experience: should the ATC have noticed that the helo was way above it's operating ceiling of 200 ft?
I read somewhere that different routes have different altitudes that are safe to fly.. and that the pilot might have been going from Route X to Route Y which would have a higher floor, but I haven't found anything to support that, and I used X and Y because I don't know the #'s of the actual routes..
Just sharing what I read.. may be total bullshite..
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:17 pm to Green Chili Tiger
Trump has a lot of common sense. His common sense tells him not too right now
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:17 pm to carguymatt
quote:
few things don't pass the smell test about the crash
Which one?
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:18 pm to mtntiger
when they go visual it is on the pilot. Plus, the timing, it happened so quick, the quick turn and elevation change. I do not think it was due to being poorly staffed in the tower. Again, this wasn't an IFR situation, where weather is bad and it is an instrument landing. This would be totally on ATC in that situation, but this was not the case since it was VFR. In addition, the tower wouldn't be performing guidance in IFR situations, it would be radar.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:18 pm to Diamondawg
quote:
Family requested that they not.
Hate to be the guy, but the public right to know outweighs even that. I MIGHT can see the govt stalling until right after the funeral, but beyond that would be unpardonable.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 7:20 pm to Penrod
quote:
ATC had very little time to notice, and they would not necessarily have been looking because the pilot said he had visual contact.
yep, they were cleared for landing with VFR clearance.
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