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Serious question - how can our OLine be so good at protection but bad in the run game
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:51 am
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:51 am
For the more “Xs and Os” type of minds out there. I don’t understand it. How can we be so good at protection and not allowing sacks but can’t seem to open up holes consistently for the running game?
18
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:56 am to TigerFan244
Cause they can pass block better than they can run block, maybe?
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:01 am to TigerFan244
It's a different skill set. 
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:01 am to TigerFan244
LF7 or All Eyes on 3 ....hasn't walked through that door lately
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:05 am to TigerFan244
pass blocking and run blocking are 2 different skill sets.
imagine a massive rock is rolling down a hill directly at your house or car.
you may not be able to stop it from going down the hill, but maybe you can guide and change it's direction just enough so it doesn't hit your house/car.
that's pass blocking
now try pushing that rock forward and through a narrow gate. Sure you may be able to move the rock, but you if don't push it in the right direction you take out your fence.
that's run blocking.
imagine a massive rock is rolling down a hill directly at your house or car.
you may not be able to stop it from going down the hill, but maybe you can guide and change it's direction just enough so it doesn't hit your house/car.
that's pass blocking
now try pushing that rock forward and through a narrow gate. Sure you may be able to move the rock, but you if don't push it in the right direction you take out your fence.
that's run blocking.
This post was edited on 10/18/24 at 9:30 am
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:07 am to TigerFan244
It's like asking why cant this RB catch the ball out the backfield and do a lot of damage because they are so successful running the ball.
Two very different things for a OLineman to do. One is attacking players trying to move forward and holding onto blocks while the other is very passive trying to hold as much ground as you can, scanning to find someone near you to block as they come in at time while creating the best pocket for your QB.
Also, I've said this before, but we spend almost all our time in 2 point stance instead of 3. The demeanor for blocking in that type of stance will always lean towards pass blocking vs. run blocking because you're in much better shape to kick out and pass protect but much worse shape to be aggressive at the LOS and attack on a run block. The Dline guys in 3 point stances will always be lower than you at the point of attack.
Two very different things for a OLineman to do. One is attacking players trying to move forward and holding onto blocks while the other is very passive trying to hold as much ground as you can, scanning to find someone near you to block as they come in at time while creating the best pocket for your QB.
Also, I've said this before, but we spend almost all our time in 2 point stance instead of 3. The demeanor for blocking in that type of stance will always lean towards pass blocking vs. run blocking because you're in much better shape to kick out and pass protect but much worse shape to be aggressive at the LOS and attack on a run block. The Dline guys in 3 point stances will always be lower than you at the point of attack.
This post was edited on 10/18/24 at 8:09 am
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:08 am to TigerFan244
I don't think we have ever truly committed to trying to run the ball except for the USCe game. We give up on it too soon and IMO don't allow any rb's to really get going...or not using the right one. Also hurts that the qb isn't a threat.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:13 am to TigerFan244
It’s a system.
It involves so much more than having “good” oline.
1. Got to have multiple backs with vision and speed And power.
2. Got to have a Good passing game that makes defense respect pass and o provide the opportunity to run. We have this.
3. Got to have good coaching to be able to teach both techniques. We have this.
4. Got to on have oline that have the ability to do both.
5. Also WRs need to have ability to block.
6. Must have correct play calling.
It will come together.
The thing is, will Kelly have this team ready on game 1 next year? No more aha moments. That’s for spring and fall practice.
It involves so much more than having “good” oline.
1. Got to have multiple backs with vision and speed And power.
2. Got to have a Good passing game that makes defense respect pass and o provide the opportunity to run. We have this.
3. Got to have good coaching to be able to teach both techniques. We have this.
4. Got to on have oline that have the ability to do both.
5. Also WRs need to have ability to block.
6. Must have correct play calling.
It will come together.
The thing is, will Kelly have this team ready on game 1 next year? No more aha moments. That’s for spring and fall practice.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:14 am to TigerFan244
Well our RBs are just bad outside of Durham. He is a beast but got hurt. You could tell ole miss he wasn’t 100%.
Josh Williams is great but he was a walk on for a reason. Dude has limitations and is slow when hitting the hole.
Kaleb Jackson is fat and can’t move.
Josh Williams is great but he was a walk on for a reason. Dude has limitations and is slow when hitting the hole.
Kaleb Jackson is fat and can’t move.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:18 am to TigerFan244
quote:. It is not all OL and probably not most of it.
how can our OLine be so good at protection but bad in the run game
Play design. Just like pass protection OL run blocks have to block the right guys against the Defensive front. I dont know how many times our run play has been blown up by an unblocked dude that was intentionally unblocked.
In modern offenses RB's have to find the hole and have a smidge of patience to do so. They also have to make somebody miss or break a tackle when they get into space to add yards to the play
QBs have to check the play into a run often when defensive alignment dictates.
BK talked about this recently and said it has been a little bit of all of these things
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:23 am to r0cky1
quote:
Kaleb Jackson is fat and can’t move.
This dude look fat to you?
May be slow but he isnt fat. He put on a lot of muscle mass in the offseason this year and speed was a concern coming into the fall camp.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:30 am to TigerFan244
Personally, I think it's a scheme issue. People are right about the differences in run and pass blocking. But the line wouldn't be as highly regarded from a draft perspective if they were considered one dimensional. Draws should work with how much they pass the ball. If the line really can only pass block it should play into the skill set.
Plenty of teams run the ball with more effectiveness out of shotgun.
Plenty of teams run the ball with more effectiveness out of shotgun.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:36 am to TigerFan244
"run game" has a lot of moving parts.
oline responsibilities can be hit the guy in front of you, or it can be a zone scheme that requires multiple players move and know their guy to block.
along those lines, the RB must be good at the oline scheme. different skills.
the QB must recognize what different fronts do to that scheme.
IMHO there is a disconnect somewhere between these differing schemes and personnel/talents. not to say that better days (IE personnel) are not in front of the Tigers, but right now, there is a disconnect between individual talents and scheme.
oline responsibilities can be hit the guy in front of you, or it can be a zone scheme that requires multiple players move and know their guy to block.
along those lines, the RB must be good at the oline scheme. different skills.
the QB must recognize what different fronts do to that scheme.
IMHO there is a disconnect somewhere between these differing schemes and personnel/talents. not to say that better days (IE personnel) are not in front of the Tigers, but right now, there is a disconnect between individual talents and scheme.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:40 am to LSU_ARMY
quote:
it's a scheme issue
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:41 am to TigerFan244
I think the biggest issue is scheme. It's always hard to run the ball when other teams think you will run the ball. LSU seems to want to show pass first. I'd bet if you asked the O-line if they rather run block from a two point or three point stance they'd say let me put my hand in the dirt.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:44 am to TigerFan244
I also think it's largely due to our personnel and where were strong vs weak.
A dominant interior OL usually means a dominant run game, while dominant OT's usually mean great pass blocking.
We have elite OT's(both projected first round picks) and average interior OL players. People just over-generalize OL play as a whole and see two elite tackles and assume we should be dominant in every aspect of blocking. That's not how it works.
A dominant interior OL usually means a dominant run game, while dominant OT's usually mean great pass blocking.
We have elite OT's(both projected first round picks) and average interior OL players. People just over-generalize OL play as a whole and see two elite tackles and assume we should be dominant in every aspect of blocking. That's not how it works.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 9:05 am to TigerFan244
On the O-line, it’s really C and RG that have consistently had issues all season, and have hurt the running game. But TEs and even the RBs themselves share a good bit of the blame. There have been a lot of plays that are really, really close, where one or two guys blow their assignment and the play gets blown up.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 9:17 am to r0cky1
quote:
Well our RBs are just bad outside of Durham. He is a beast but got hurt. You could tell ole miss he wasn’t 100%. Josh Williams is great but he was a walk on for a reason. Dude has limitations and is slow when hitting the hole. Kaleb Jackson is fat and can’t move.
Williams was a walk-on at LSU because he didn’t want to play in the G5 or FCS. He’s not some high school hanger-on who came here to be practice cannon fodder. He’s a solid back. He’s just not nearly as good of a fit in this year’s offense because he isn’t standing next to Jayden Daniels. If our OL and TEs, especially the interior OL, were a little better at run blocking, Williams would be a lot more effective. He just doesn’t line up as well with what they are capable of.
Durham is the best fit because he has great vision and can hit the hole hard. Once he’s healthy, he needs to get the bulk of the time with Williams coming in for spot work and some 3rd downs.
Holly is such a fricking idiot. He would have had a real opportunity to make an impact this season.
I would love to see the staff give Johnson one or two scripted plays per game. He’s got enough athleticism to break it anytime and it would take a little load off of Durham as he’s healing up. The same goes for Thomas with a jet sweep or two.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 9:17 am to LSU_ARMY
quote:
Personally, I think it's a scheme issue
What specifically about the scheme is the issue? There is a combination of things that have to come together to run the football.
First and foremost you have to have a favorable box. Secondly you have to block it right based on the front and the call. Then your RB has to make the right read and hit the hole. For the run the break passed 10 or so yards you need the WRs to execute their blocks.
Our biggest issue right now is that we have to constantly help our center in run blocking. Opposing DTs are giving him major problems. Ole Miss was a nighmare matchup having a first round talent lined up on our weakness.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 9:24 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
In modern offenses RB's have to find the hole and have a smidge of patience to do so. They also have to make somebody miss or break a tackle when they get into space to add yards to the play
Williams was a lot more effective at grinding out consistent yardage when defenses had to pay attention to Daniels. He’s just not the same threat next to Nuss.
Durham is the only back this year now that Emery is down who has that vision and burst to the hole you need to run a lot of zone out of the shotgun. Hopefully he’s healed some more, because he was definitely slowed by the injury last week and that really limited his effectiveness.
This post was edited on 10/18/24 at 9:25 am
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