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Boeing Stock
Posted on 10/14/24 at 9:05 am
Posted on 10/14/24 at 9:05 am
What's the MT's thoughts on Boeing? Seems like one of this too big to fail companies. Down 60% of the past two years. Down big time since the recent strike/layoffs. They basically have a monopoly over the commercial airline industry, though.
10
Posted on 10/14/24 at 9:14 am to TheOcean
quote:
They basically have a monopoly over the commercial airline industry, though.
Do they really? I remember when that was said about GM in the Auto world
I would not touch Boeing as a long term investment, that company is in a downward spiral. I am sure some money can be made off them though in the short term.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 9:43 am to DarthRebel
Apples and oranges. GM =/= Boeing. Controlling the entire commercial airline industry production is significantly different than being 1 of 10 large auto makers.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 9:53 am to TheOcean
Over 30% of Boeing revenue comes from U.S. government. Investing would likely depend on how do you project that gravy train to continue.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 10:06 am to TheOcean
I do think Boeing is too important for the country at this point to let it fail. How long the stock can stay depressed is a question though
My other worry compared to other too big to fail companies, is that it does not protect the shareholders. They have significant debt loads, which is understandable as planes are very capital intensive. However if they keep missing deadlines on delivery, there is no way their credit isn't downgraded. This could cause major issues and possibly lead to bankruptcy. Obviously in the long term that might be good for the company, but not great for shareholders.
If they were still turning a profit right now even in these times, I would probably be loading up
My other worry compared to other too big to fail companies, is that it does not protect the shareholders. They have significant debt loads, which is understandable as planes are very capital intensive. However if they keep missing deadlines on delivery, there is no way their credit isn't downgraded. This could cause major issues and possibly lead to bankruptcy. Obviously in the long term that might be good for the company, but not great for shareholders.
If they were still turning a profit right now even in these times, I would probably be loading up
Posted on 10/14/24 at 10:11 am to TheOcean
Boeing won't fail but for the foreseeable future, it's just not investable. Reminds of the early days of 3M's and WFC's problems. A lot more bad news is out there.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 10:30 am to TheOcean
quote:
Apples and oranges. GM =/= Boeing.
You have not lived long enough then, there did not used to be 10 large auto makers. GM went bankrupt 1 year after losing the title of world's largest auto maker. It is a wrong assumption to think they are safe just because the are the dominant player in the North American market.
Boeing has lost $32 billion since 2019, and that would send almost any other company to bankruptcy. Those losses are not sustainable and it will catch up. They have $48 billion in debt currently.
The only thing saving them, is Airbus has a backlog of 8000 orders and can only make 800 planes a year. Boeing has a backlog of 5600 planes, however is producing them slower because of strikes and quality control issues. Boeing's revenue will not be in enough in 2025 and 2026 to cover the the debt, so expect new debt.
They have a long way to go, and much like how Toyota eventually knocked off GM, you will see Airbus knock off Boeing.
This post was edited on 10/14/24 at 10:31 am
Posted on 10/14/24 at 12:08 pm to TheOcean
quote:
They basically have a monopoly over the commercial airline industry, though.
Huh? Do you even Airbus?
Airbus has also been crushing Boeing in more recent years, take a look at the aircraft backlog of both right now, too.
All time A320 class aircraft deliveries looking like it will overtake all time Boeing 737 class deliveries this year...and the A320 class came out much later than the 737 did to begin with. The Max has really put Boeing way behind.
This post was edited on 10/14/24 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 10/14/24 at 12:32 pm to thunderbird1100
OPs example, is thinking of life a few years in the past and ignoring the actual data of the present.
Boeing is more likely to file bankruptcy, than top their all time high reached in 2019. Their stock has dropped 66% since then and there is zero positive news.
Boeing is more likely to file bankruptcy, than top their all time high reached in 2019. Their stock has dropped 66% since then and there is zero positive news.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 3:07 pm to DarthRebel
Yep, Delta has more orders for Airbus planes than Boeing right now. HUGE hit to Boeing.
Even a very long time Boeing loyalist like United who have had a very Boeing heavy fleet over time has about 250 orders in for Airbus planes right now which is way more than their current fleet of 165 Aibrbus planes - and none of those orders are to replace any Airbus planes, in fact 50 of them are to replace aging Boeing 757s.
There's been a pretty heavy shift away from Boeing and 3/4 major US airlines have been at the forefront of that here in the states. Southwest is one of Boeing's last loyalists and theyve really tested Southwest with the failure of the Max so far.
Even a very long time Boeing loyalist like United who have had a very Boeing heavy fleet over time has about 250 orders in for Airbus planes right now which is way more than their current fleet of 165 Aibrbus planes - and none of those orders are to replace any Airbus planes, in fact 50 of them are to replace aging Boeing 757s.
There's been a pretty heavy shift away from Boeing and 3/4 major US airlines have been at the forefront of that here in the states. Southwest is one of Boeing's last loyalists and theyve really tested Southwest with the failure of the Max so far.
This post was edited on 10/14/24 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 10/14/24 at 4:00 pm to TheOcean
Owned it for about 5 years now, what a total stinker. Bought it for a long term investment, but will sell when I can break even, if ever. A company fraught with constant problems, bad press, company bloat, is never a good business model. Hoping for the best, but it’s been a big disappointment.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 4:00 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
Boeing is more likely to file bankruptcy, than top their all time high reached in 2019. Their stock has dropped 66% since then and there is zero positive news.
I’d take that bet.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 5:34 pm to tigermeat
I’ve listened to rocket team members ar Stennis complain about Boeing incompetencies for years. NASA has been negligent enough to continue bedding with them to their detriment.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 6:08 pm to slackster
quote:
I’d take that bet.
I will send $100 to the charity of your choice if they hit their all time high again.
They might, anything is possible. They are also equally close to collapse. What would have happened if the astronauts died in Starliner? What happens with another major failure of their airline sector?
The only part of their company generating revenue is the the global support side. They are not making money building planes or space items, only offering support, services and parts.
This post was edited on 10/14/24 at 6:13 pm
Posted on 10/14/24 at 6:36 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
I will send $100 to the charity of your choice if they hit their all time high again.
I’ll do the same if they go bankrupt, we might both be dead before either happens though.
It almost goes without saying that no one wants to own it, but the company is too important to fail. Their defense segment is profitable and sizable. Their commercial airline business is obviously a mess but
it supports over 1.5 million jobs across the country.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it gets worse before it gets better, but I do think it gets better and the stock will eventually respond. They will be raising capital soon and once that is out of the way I think the bottom may be done.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 6:39 pm to TheOcean
Boeing is currently one of the worst ran companies. .
Hope that changed. Like it or not, airbus is way better right now.
. Hope that changed. Like it or not, airbus is way better right now.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 9:31 pm to TheOcean
If you’re looking for returns in the next couple of years I’d sooner look into animal inspired meme coins.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 10:14 pm to TheOcean
quote:
They basically have a monopoly over the commercial airline industry, though.
Airbus and Embraer have decent shares of the regional jets.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 11:17 pm to slackster
They are too big to fail, but so were others. I think they Boeing name will persist, however it very well could hit bankruptcy and come out the other side different.
Boeing's market cap is down to $93 billion, putting them currently at 189 in the global rankings.
Boeing's market cap is down to $93 billion, putting them currently at 189 in the global rankings.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 6:59 am to DarthRebel
quote:
They are too big to fail, but so were others. I think they Boeing name will persist, however it very well could hit bankruptcy and come out the other side different.
It’s plausible, especially with more of the same from management, but this stock is already so hated that I think most of the pain is over. If they can simply not frick up for a bit you’ll make money.
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