Prove me wrong

common decency and order

So you're saying that there's no justification for any rational ordering of societies that don't worship the god of the commandments or for societies that existed for a hundred thousand years or more before the commandments were handed down?

Please explain.

quote:

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Without God, all things are permitted

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- Ivan Karamozov

First, there is no definitive evidence that mankind is hundreds of thousands of years old or that God’s commandments were handed down only recently into such an existence.

Secondly, there certainly is “good” reason for “rational” ordering of society. However, much like freedom of speech is up for debate on the global stage right now, who gets to set the standard(s) of said speaking freely & determining what’s “good” & “rational” is is what matters most. I’m merely suggesting that without God or someone/something outside of mankind or any Earthly kind for that matter setting the standard(s) there is no reason we shouldn’t all be able to just be as all of the other animals in somewhat of a state of anarchy doing as we see fit for our own survival &/or desires. Otherwise, it’s just one or some telling the others how it’s going to be until said others change that.

Btw, please don’t misunderstand my point for this conversation. I believe in God because of my study & testing in my private time of the Bible, various scientific theories, logic/philosophy & so on. I’m an average Joe of sorts but some of the “big” questions from throughout the ages are intriguing to me.

The intellectual peasantry amongst us won't understand.

They still robbed, stole, raped, pillaged and did as they please - these people walking around do this now are soulless. 25% of people have no conscience - been that way thought out history - it’s who ultimately rises to top. Ruthless.

I didn’t suggest that you can’t have an ordered society devoid of God. I’m asking what’s the justification for it though? If there’s no ultimate One to answer to in the end then what does it matter other than to suit the will of one or some versus the will of another?

As far as the Bible being obsolete….please explain that a bit further. The founders were men of faith whether they were theists or deists. I’m not familiar with any being entirely irreligious. However, there’s many writings from the founders making clear their basis for their faith in one form or another.