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re: USAF Instructor Pilot Passed Away This Morning Due to Ejection Seat Malfunction
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:25 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:25 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
It’s the bad judgement of the junior NCO ranks, in particular the E-5s and 6s making bad decisions to fly.
I haven't read the report and don't intend to, but how is this being blamed on enlisted folks? Are they alleging E5/E6s are signing off on maintenance records when they shouldn't be?
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:27 pm to When in Rome
Nothing is 100% guaranteed.
The zero-zero seat is exactly the same whether you’re 5’8”/180 or 6’3”/225. Pull the handle on the ground and you’re getting markedly different rides.
Seats have malfunctioned. There have been inadvertent ejections, partial ejections, etc, etc.
It’s an unforgiving business and sometimes it’s just not your day. Way too early to know what happened here.
The zero-zero seat is exactly the same whether you’re 5’8”/180 or 6’3”/225. Pull the handle on the ground and you’re getting markedly different rides.
Seats have malfunctioned. There have been inadvertent ejections, partial ejections, etc, etc.
It’s an unforgiving business and sometimes it’s just not your day. Way too early to know what happened here.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:30 pm to SulphursFinest
quote:
I’ve heard from a source who is a pilot in the army that they are getting slashed on their budget and have not been doing routine PMs and maintenance.
This is not the case in the AF. MX personnel are very well funded and QC is over the top. AF MX folks are primadonnas, and have a higher opinion of themselves than Maverick in Top Gun, all this in addition to be being the whiniest bunch you've ever seen.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 2:22 pm to greenbean
quote:
Are they alleging E5/E6s are signing off on maintenance records when they shouldn't be?
From the report:
quote:
Eric Schwegler, G3 director at the Army Combat Readiness Center, told Defense News that mishaps are far more common at “the lowest level, when you’ve got maybe an E-5 [the lowest rank as a noncommissioned officer] in charge.
“[What] we see time and time again is they underestimate the risk or the risk changes,” he added.
As a result, inexperienced crews were “out-driving their headlights, out-training the experience that was in their force at whatever level,” Maj. Gen. Mac McCurry, commander of the Army Aviation Center of Excellence at Fort Novosel, Alabama, told Defense News last month.”
So you have E-5s deciding on what the training is going to be for the entire flight crew and they are underestimating the risk.
Never mind that with the 160th crash in the Med the entire NCO corp and most of the warrants were opposed to flying that night because of the extreme darkness and how flat the Med was that night. The perception on where the water was ended up being near zero.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 3:32 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
From the report:
quote:
Eric Schwegler, G3 director at the Army Combat Readiness Center, told Defense News that mishaps are far more common at “the lowest level, when you’ve got maybe an E-5 [the lowest rank as a noncommissioned officer] in charge.
“[What] we see time and time again is they underestimate the risk or the risk changes,” he added.
As a result, inexperienced crews were “out-driving their headlights, out-training the experience that was in their force at whatever level,” Maj. Gen. Mac McCurry, commander of the Army Aviation Center of Excellence at Fort Novosel, Alabama, told Defense News last month.”
So you have E-5s deciding on what the training is going to be for the entire flight crew and they are underestimating the risk.
Never mind that with the 160th crash in the Med the entire NCO corp and most of the warrants were opposed to flying that night because of the extreme darkness and how flat the Med was that night. The perception on where the water was ended up being near zero.
I did 32 years AF, but I'm not very familiar with Army culture. I find it very hard to believe that E5/E6s are overruling, or making decisions without concurrence from, WOs and Commissioned Officers.
Pilots rule the airframe, so I can't believe a E5 is ordering a WO to fly a mission when the WO thinks it's too dangerous.
I'd be interested in hearing from a current Army SNCO on this subject.
The AF doesn't have WOs and enlisted have very little decision making authority (even at the E9 level), officers make these calls, day-to-day, in the AF.
It sounds to me like this is an attempt to shift the blame down to the lowest level, which is becoming the norm.
I certainly defer to currently serving Army SNCOs, WOs and Officers on this matter.
This post was edited on 5/14/24 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 5/14/24 at 5:00 pm to greenbean
quote:
I find it very hard to believe that E5/E6s are overruling, or making decisions without concurrence from, WOs and Commissioned Officers.
Your finding it hard is the correct instinct. The Army brass is scapegoating the low level NCOs.
My son is one, was the second airship on the scene of the wreck off Cyprus.
The E5/6s are constantly over ruled on safety issues by higher ups - both WOs and Officers. The claim in the report is utter BS.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 5:28 pm to wileyjones
I thought that modern ejection systems would move the pilot far enough away for the chute to open. Was this model one of those and it just malfunctioned?
Posted on 5/14/24 at 5:54 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Nah man, I read the Army’s report. It’s not the lack of funding, being under manned, the extreme pace of flight ops, or lack of maintenance. It’s the bad judgement of the junior NCO ranks, in particular the E-5s and 6s making bad decisions to fly. That is literally in the Army’s report, it pissed me off like nothing else.
This sounds like the military equivalent of Steve Jobs telling iPhone users with bad reception “ You’re holding it wrong”.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 6:42 pm to USAFTiger42
quote:
Sounds like it self-activated.
Didn’t know Boeing makes ejection seats now.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 6:56 pm to SulphursFinest
quote:
I’ve heard from a source who is a pilot in the army that they are getting slashed on their budget and have not been doing routine PMs and maintenance.
Not saying this is the case, but that’s what’s behind a lot of army choppers malfunctioning lately
I don’t believe that. No one is going to short the aircraft maintenance. They would ground aircraft before doing that.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 7:27 pm to flyingtexastiger
Does the zero-zero seat have a control where it won’t deploy if the pilot is not strapped in?
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:17 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Your finding it hard is the correct instinct. The Army brass is scapegoating the low level NCOs.
My son is one, was the second airship on the scene of the wreck off Cyprus.
The E5/6s are constantly over ruled on safety issues by higher ups - both WOs and Officers. The claim in the report is utter BS.
yeah it sounded like BS, but apparently some folks are parroting it. People need to stop believing anything they read, especially if put out by the gub'mint/military.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:25 pm to USAFTiger42
As said, an ejection is still an extremely high G and high risk maneuver. Even if the pilot did everything correctly it would be easy for him to land on something on the ground that could kill him like the tail of another aircraft.
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