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re: A I refuses to say how many Jews were killed by the Nazis but knows all about the NABKA!!
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:24 am to kingbob
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:24 am to kingbob
quote:
They had giant industrial cremation facilities at a scale far beyond anything we have in our society because we aren’t genociding people in prison camps by the millions.
Today, it takes about 3 hours to cremate a human body. If we use that number and do the math, we come up with 18,000,000 hours. When divided by 24 we get 750,000 days. When divided by 365 we get 2,055 years. How many human beings per day were cremated is not known.
Just how big were the giant industrial facilities? If known, we could extrapolate further, then hammer Google A I with the correct answers!!
I no longer use GOOGLE as an SE due to bias. But I do want to know why Google A I is silent when asked that particular question.
This post was edited on 5/13/24 at 9:32 am
3
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:28 am to OBReb6
quote:
6 million
I saw a chat gpt Q&A where it claimed that number as accurate, then was questioned about the number of corpses recovered/ number of missing persons reported who were not. Finally the maximum number/day that the available crematoriums could process.
It proved to itself that number flat-out isn't possible.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:34 am to Timeoday
Ahh, so the thread was a setup from the beginning
Well done (no pun intended)
Well done (no pun intended)
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:36 am to Timeoday
You’re assuming only one facility burning one body at a time rather than dozens of facilities burning hundreds of bodies at a time. You’re either an absolute ignoramus or (more likely) a stormfront or jihadist troll. GTFO of here with your “just asking questions” bull shite. It’s impossible to genuinely doubt the existence of the holocaust. We can speculate on whether it was 3 million or 6 million, but the difference in death toll changes nothing in regards to the overall scheme of geopolitics, right vs wrong, etc. The holocaust was wrong, genocide is wrong, and and we don’t need another Holocaust. And “from the river to the sea” is a slogan advocating for a holocaust.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:38 am to Timeoday
quote:
Just how big were the giant industrial facilities?
Would you believe big enough to cremate 1000s per day?
That the Nazis had enough of a capacity they decided to dig up some mass graves and transport the bodies to be burned?
They also burned some bodies in mass pits - not technically cremated, but more charred.
Yep. You got them now.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:38 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
The scope and scale of the conflict suggests that, yes, they could cremate the bodies if they set their minds to it (although obviously there was a combination of mass graves, crematorium and, frankly, many thousands of unburied bodies as the camps were liberated - there are films if you are curious).
When I say cremation I am more-so refering to the physical "ovens" in a crematorium facility where you would burn something down, not a burn pit. You can obviously burn as much as a pit could fill which is whatever non-zero number you choose.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:38 am to kingbob
quote:
dozens of facilities burning hundreds of bodies at a time
There’s not any evidence this was the case. Iirc even Auschwitz had some fairly small number of crematoria
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:40 am to kingbob
quote:
You’re either an absolute ignoramus or (more likely) a stormfront or jihadist troll. GTFO of here with your “just asking questions” bull shite.
There it is. Someone touched the third rail.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:43 am to kingbob
I don't see anyone denying it.
Clarifying the actual number of victims is perfectly acceptable.
Clarifying the actual number of victims is perfectly acceptable.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:46 am to kingbob
quote:
It’s impossible to genuinely doubt the existence of the holocaust. We can speculate on whether it was 3 million or 6 million, but the difference in death toll changes nothing in regards to the overall scheme of geopolitics, right vs wrong, etc.
Is that not what people are doing here?
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:48 am to OBReb6
quote:
Iirc even Auschwitz had some fairly small number of crematoria
There were 4 heavy duty facilities just at A-B that could handle over 2k/day (the reported death toll there was between 1 and 1.1 million, 90% Jews, the balance being non-Jewish Poles, gypsies, Soviet prisoners, etc.). That's just 1 large crematory facility for the largest camp and they had smaller ones scattered over the complex of camps.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:49 am to Old Money
quote:
Is that not what people are doing here?
You don't think folks are doing this as a "gotcha" to Jews or Israel?
Because I do.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:49 am to 19
quote:
Clarifying the actual number of victims is perfectly acceptable.
In theory? Yes.
In practice? No. The first couple pages of the thread will be casual discussion about cremations and logistics, but by page 10, it’ll be sounding straight out of Hamas or Mein Kampf. I have lived on the internet long enough to see where this discussion ALWAYS goes WITHOUT fail 100% of the time.
Step 1: the numbers were exaggerated
Step 2: the numbers were impossible
Step 3: there were actually more jews after
Step 4: those were just work camps for POW’s
Step 5: there really wasn’t any genocide at all
Step 6: it was all a lie to create Israel
Step 7: there’s really no justification for the creation of Israel
Step 8: Isreal is committing a genocide worse than the holocaust based on MY numbers
Step 9: Israel should be destroyed
Step 10: anyone complicit with “lying” about the holocaust should be rounded up into camps along with all those evil bankers and entertainers in hollywood.
This isn’t even a mild exaggeration. I’ve watched it over and over and over and over again.
Questioning the facts surrounding a horrific genocide should in no intellectual honest way justify committing another genocide, yet I see that insane logic leap happen constantly on the internet. It sickens me.
This post was edited on 5/13/24 at 9:52 am
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:52 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
There were 4 heavy duty facilities just at A-B that could handle over 2k/day
Do you mind explaining what heavy duty means and what type of equipment they were using? I’m not doubting you I just haven’t found anything on this
Posted on 5/13/24 at 9:55 am to kingbob
This isn't all that new of a discussion - from one of the finest movies about the issue:
Posted on 5/13/24 at 10:02 am to OBReb6
quote:
Do you mind explaining what heavy duty means and what type of equipment they were using? I’m not doubting you I just haven’t found anything on this
I mean, designed and built specifically for the task. Auschwitz-Birkenau was a modular, multi-function complex of camps. They had some POWs, some political prisoners, some war industries slave labor and a large extermination facility.
They cracked the killing problem with the gas chambers. They built up their capacity for cremations. I think the original pair could handle a combined 750 or so per day. They knew that wouldn't be enough, so they scaled up another pair to roughly double that (for a combined tripling) and the 4 large facilities combined could handle about 2200 per day, or thereabouts. (ETA: In fact, in looking at some other references, my memory may be halving the capacity - maybe the bigger ones could handle 1500 each, twice the smaller ones - for a combined total of the 4 being about 4500 per day at max capacity - but they were only in operation the last 2 years of Nazi Germany. There was a provisional facility operating early on, but it was swamped.)
I mean, these aren't state secrets pulled from the Soviet archives in the 90s. There were living participants (Jewish prisoners, German soldiers and civilians) who testified about all of this in the 40s. We have custody of the complex. We have the Nazi records of the design and construction. The Holocaust isn't a conspiracy - it's a historical fact.
This post was edited on 5/13/24 at 10:10 am
Posted on 5/13/24 at 10:04 am to kingbob
quote:
Questioning the facts surrounding a horrific genocide should in no intellectual honest way justify committing another genocide, yet I see that insane logic leap happen constantly on the internet. It sickens me.
You’re right about all of this. Neo Nazis use these arguments to accomplish various goals. However I think it’s dishonest to point to this but fail to acknowledge Israel and Jewish groups like the ADL and AIPAC use the inverse of this to further their agenda and make them immune to criticism.
So some kind of middle ground has to be reached, and when discussion is shut down over any nuance it increases public distrust, just look at the current public perception of the medical industry.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 10:05 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
You don't think folks are doing this as a "gotcha" to Jews or Israel?
Because I do.
Obviously, but you can just combat people with sources. If they choose to engage with their own sources, then it becomes a good discussion. If they don't, well nothing you can do about that.
I found this on wikipedia (not the greatest source but they do footnote the book it is from):
quote:
Plans for crematoria II and III show that both had an oven room 30 by 11.24 m (98.4 by 36.9 ft) on the ground floor, and an underground dressing room 49.43 by 7.93 m (162.2 by 26.0 ft) and gas chamber 30 by 7 m (98 by 23 ft). The dressing rooms had wooden benches along the walls and numbered pegs for clothing. Victims would be led from these rooms to a five-yard-long narrow corridor, which in turn led to a space from which the gas chamber door opened. The chambers were white inside, and nozzles were fixed to the ceiling to resemble showerheads.[65] The daily capacity of the crematoria (how many bodies could be burned in a 24-hour period) was 340 corpses in crematorium I; 1,440 each in crematoria II and III; and 768 each in IV and V.[66] By June 1943 all four crematoria were operational, but crematorium I was not used after July 1943. This made the total daily capacity 4,416, although by loading three to five corpses at a time, the Sonderkommando were able to burn some 8,000 bodies a day. This maximum capacity was rarely needed; the average between 1942 and 1944 was 1,000 bodies burned every day.[67]
[67]
Piper 2000b, p. 164.
Piper, Franciszek (2000b). Dlugoborski, Waclaw; Piper, Franciszek (eds.). Auschwitz, 1940–1945. Central Issues in the History of the Camp. Vol. III: Mass Murder. Oswiecim: Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum. ISBN 978-8385047872. OCLC 929235229.
Didn't read the whole wiki page but I can't find a good quick link to how many actual ovens were in each of those facilities. Just some random quora page alleging 52.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 10:07 am to OBReb6
quote:
You’re right about all of this. Neo Nazis use these arguments to accomplish various goals. However I think it’s dishonest to point to this but fail to acknowledge Israel and Jewish groups like the ADL and AIPAC use the inverse of this to further their agenda and make them immune to criticism.
So some kind of middle ground has to be reached, and when discussion is shut down over any nuance it increases public distrust, just look at the current public perception of the medical industry.
It is frustrating how one can ask questions about ANY historical event or atrocity, but the second you mention the holocaust. Well, that is off limits. Don't ask any questions, and don't question the sources.
Posted on 5/13/24 at 10:11 am to Old Money
quote:
Didn't read the whole wiki page but I can't find a good quick link to how many actual ovens were in each of those facilities. Just some random quora page alleging 52.
What's a good source?
Jewish Virtual Library?
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