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re: In a sense, this has been a great scenario for us.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:18 am to CP3forMVP
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:18 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
Don't forget Minnesota.
Tim Connelly is the exact opposite of David Griffin. He talks to his star players and goes out and gets players to fit them. He went out and got Aaron Gordon when most people said he was nothing more than an overpaid dunker. It sounds crazy now, but he took a lot of criticism for that trade.
In Minnesota, he was roasted in the media (and on pelicans talk) for the Gobert trade. They said the same thing; overpaid, one way player. But no one ever talked about how Gordon and Gobert were elite at things his stars were deficient at.
I'm glad that the wolves are doing well. Unfortunately, it's just another reminder that this franchise sided with that fricking sour faced retard, Monty Williams, over Connelly and Demps.
0
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:25 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
don't know what to tell you then. Our star was healthy most of the year and we were an 8th seed and they were the 1 seed.
Read my whole post man
And our healthy star player was out of shape for 65% of the season
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:26 am to Fun Bunch
Griff fricked up this rebuild from the get go. He had time when Zion was a rookie to add assets for over priced vets on bad contracts. Instead he gave up assets for players like Adams.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:26 am to Fun Bunch
quote:Yea, to the point of your OP, probably just 3 or so weeks ago I was on here arguing it was just so unlikely to happen.
At least one of BI or CJ will get moved.
But given all the events, I've changed course. I'm not at 100% it will happen, but it's definitely a lot more likely now than it was just 1 month ago.
Still funny that it's 5 years of talking about things like this and why they're good for the team...and the next year nothing is ever good for the team and we end the season just like we did the year before, then find the next reason why that's a positive lol.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:31 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
Don't forget Minnesota
I’ve said more than a few times, look at the Cavs. They’ve added all the players I said on here we should have targeted through the years.
Jarrett Allen when we traded for Adams. (Compensation was about the same) if Griff was more patient.
Lauri M when we could have had him for Ball
Drafting Garland at 4
Going all in and trading CJ or BI for Spyder when Utah moved him.
All players Griff could have easily got but passed.
This post was edited on 4/29/24 at 10:33 am
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:37 am to shel311
quote:
But given all the events, I've changed course. I'm not at 100% it will happen, but it's definitely a lot more likely now than it was just 1 month ago.
So it's a good thing we made the playoffs. Say it lol
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:41 am to Fun Bunch
Yes, some people will say you’re a fake fan but for the succesful longevity of this team you have to wish we get swept. Wish we never made the playoff to begin with
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:43 am to Macintosh
I'm not going to root for them to lose or anything. I will cheer for them to win.
But BI and CJ having decent games tonight and Pels still losing wouldn't be the worst fate.
But BI and CJ having decent games tonight and Pels still losing wouldn't be the worst fate.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 10:44 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:I'll scream it from the rooftop...the day BI is traded
So it's a good thing we made the playoffs. Say it lol
Posted on 4/29/24 at 11:15 am to NOSHAU
quote:
OK, so why does Utah want CJ?
They don't But Danny Ainge can't help but acquire picks and you'd have to give some to get Sexton for CJ.
Not saying he would do it, but it can't be straight up.
This post was edited on 4/29/24 at 11:16 am
Posted on 4/29/24 at 11:42 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Perhaps I wasn't clear, he won't be forced by Gayle to do it. The force is metaphorical. He can't just sit back and do nothing because for once there is actual national attention and ridicule, and the media will pay attention to what we do for once. Griffin sees that, he also sees an already tenuous fan base extremely apathetic.
The excuse from Griff will probably be that Zion got hurt and therefore we’re actually better than getting swept in the first round. When in reality we probably lose in 5 or 6 with Zion anyway.
I hope we move on from BI because I really can’t stand his style of play, but I think it’s unlikely.
I mean shite, we extended Willie this year. Does Griff really seem to have his pulse on things?
Posted on 4/29/24 at 11:47 am to Balsamic_duck
I agree changes need to be made but comparisons to OKC and Minnesota are going to be frustrating. With better coaching *and health* the Pels can hang with anyone. Both OKC and Minnesota have been healthy this year.
Anthony Edwards hasn't really been injured yet in his career. Gobert is also generally healthy but played in most games since 18-19. KAT played in second most games since 18-19. Even NAW, while only a role player, played in all 82.
Shai played the second most games since his rookie year. Chet played in every game. Jalen Williams played in 71. Dort played in 79.
Even Denver was healthy. 7 of top 8 played in at least 63 games.
Most of the teams below those 3 in standings had injuriesand/or rested guys.
But things were going pretty well for Pels despite limitations of role players (Trey and Jose both missed 25+) until BI and Zion had overlapping injuries (accepting here that BI is not near 100).
I'm beat a dead horse here again and again on health, but even the Pels know how important it was by making Aaron Nelson a splash hire. But it hasn't worked, whether that's on the trainers or players or both, it's just not worked.
But the answer isn't to run it back and hope tge Pels are finally healthy. Pels have to realize it's not reasonable to expect the guys we have to be healthy enough to go anywhere in the playoffs. Rarely is a team going to give "face value" for injury prone guys unless taking back a different kind of problem, so the realistic question when moving guys is how much of a discount do you take?
Anthony Edwards hasn't really been injured yet in his career. Gobert is also generally healthy but played in most games since 18-19. KAT played in second most games since 18-19. Even NAW, while only a role player, played in all 82.
Shai played the second most games since his rookie year. Chet played in every game. Jalen Williams played in 71. Dort played in 79.
Even Denver was healthy. 7 of top 8 played in at least 63 games.
Most of the teams below those 3 in standings had injuriesand/or rested guys.
But things were going pretty well for Pels despite limitations of role players (Trey and Jose both missed 25+) until BI and Zion had overlapping injuries (accepting here that BI is not near 100).
I'm beat a dead horse here again and again on health, but even the Pels know how important it was by making Aaron Nelson a splash hire. But it hasn't worked, whether that's on the trainers or players or both, it's just not worked.
But the answer isn't to run it back and hope tge Pels are finally healthy. Pels have to realize it's not reasonable to expect the guys we have to be healthy enough to go anywhere in the playoffs. Rarely is a team going to give "face value" for injury prone guys unless taking back a different kind of problem, so the realistic question when moving guys is how much of a discount do you take?
Posted on 4/29/24 at 11:49 am to Parrish
When we were fully healthy, and really good teams were also fully healthy, we largely got our asses kicked this year.
We feasted on bad teams and good teams that had players out.
We feasted on bad teams and good teams that had players out.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 12:07 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:If all 10 postseason teams are fully healthy, we're only favored 1, 2 at the most. SAC and GSW...that's it.
When we were fully healthy, and really good teams were also fully healthy, we largely got our asses kicked this year.
That's not good. At full strength, we're the 8th best team in the West. Every team in front of us would be favored and likely beat us in a series. Look at these playoffs, who the heck are we beating? I just don't see it.
This team NEEDS change or we'll be battling for the play in again next season.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 12:15 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
I’ve said more than a few times, look at the Cavs. They’ve added all the players I said on here we should have targeted through the years
And Pels had a better record than the Cavs, this year. The Cavs just happen to play in the East and the Pels in the West.
Cavs are at least competitive in their series, though, but if they don't close out the Magic, they will have same number of playoff series wins as the Pels in the last 5 years: 0.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 12:21 pm to John Casey
Cavs were injury riddled all year and good coaching kept them afloat. What they were able to do when their core missed 25-30 games each is impressive.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 1:07 pm to Fun Bunch
So many things can happen but I firmly believe you need a great GM.
OKC was dealt a death blow when KD left. At that time he was a top 5 talent. OKC got 0 picks and 0 trade value out of him - he just walked away. Thats a crapload of value you can’t get back.
So the GM knew the fanbase was devastated and being so new he knew this was a delicate time long term. Move all the rest of your good players (to start over) and fans may leave in droves and assume NBA is rigged for big market cities.
So what Presti did was talk Russ into coming back and cementing his OKC legacy. And they had a press conference at the arena and fans filled it up. And Russ said he was staying - it was that moment he’ll always be held in high regard here, no matter what he does elsewhere. Him staying and then winning MVP was a “recovery” year - mostly for the fans sake. He took them to playoffs with a very raw team. Sabonis was a rookie. Dipo was oft injured. Adams was still learning.
Then Presti decided to give it one more try and brought in PG and Melo. After failing to get to finals - the biggest thing it did was tell newish OKC fans there was no path to a title by basically filling potholes year after year. And at that point the fans knew it too.
So what he did was started to make trades to get back value for all these players. He traded PG to LAC and got SGA and a crapload of picks. Traded Russ for picks and most had said Russ contract made him untradeable. Traded Sabonis and Adams and Dipo and so on. And for the most part they appeased fans who knew the only way up was down first.
So to NOP - you are in that Russ after KD phase. Can you make enough moves while keeping current good players and get them over the hump? If not then you have to maximize trade value of top players to load up for the rebuild. And find your long term coach who will grow with the new players.
The challenge with rebuilds is if your GM misses on some key top drafts - that can ruin the rebuild and you get stuck in no mans land. Too good to draft high and too bad to go far. When Presti drafted Holmgren and he was hurt for the season - so many pundits said how bad that draft pick was. But it turned out great just a year later.
I contend Zion is a great player if surrounded by some good talent. I think you can build around him - but it will take going all in and spending into tax cap and lux tax. You can be over 3 of 4 years before it gets very punitive so you have 4 years to go all in and spend and surround him with talent. If your GM (and owners) will not let you go into tax then it will be hard to get over the top.
I personally think Presti is great with drafts and acquiring picks and whenever he leaves OKC we’ll never have anyone as good again. He’s made some mistakes in the first empire building (the KD/Russ/Harden era) but my guess is he learned better for this second try.
The key is identifying when you need to rebuild before your star players have any decline. You want to maximize their trade value as there’s always a team thats “one player away” and will trade the farm to get him.
Rebuilds are never assured and have many roadblocks. The big market teams can reload because they have the big money owners who will buy their rings - look at GS and all the punitive tax they are paying but their owner doesn't care he got his titles. Smaller market teams have to be precise in their moves and one or two wrong can set them back years.
Your team will have a lot of thinking to do off season.
OKC was dealt a death blow when KD left. At that time he was a top 5 talent. OKC got 0 picks and 0 trade value out of him - he just walked away. Thats a crapload of value you can’t get back.
So the GM knew the fanbase was devastated and being so new he knew this was a delicate time long term. Move all the rest of your good players (to start over) and fans may leave in droves and assume NBA is rigged for big market cities.
So what Presti did was talk Russ into coming back and cementing his OKC legacy. And they had a press conference at the arena and fans filled it up. And Russ said he was staying - it was that moment he’ll always be held in high regard here, no matter what he does elsewhere. Him staying and then winning MVP was a “recovery” year - mostly for the fans sake. He took them to playoffs with a very raw team. Sabonis was a rookie. Dipo was oft injured. Adams was still learning.
Then Presti decided to give it one more try and brought in PG and Melo. After failing to get to finals - the biggest thing it did was tell newish OKC fans there was no path to a title by basically filling potholes year after year. And at that point the fans knew it too.
So what he did was started to make trades to get back value for all these players. He traded PG to LAC and got SGA and a crapload of picks. Traded Russ for picks and most had said Russ contract made him untradeable. Traded Sabonis and Adams and Dipo and so on. And for the most part they appeased fans who knew the only way up was down first.
So to NOP - you are in that Russ after KD phase. Can you make enough moves while keeping current good players and get them over the hump? If not then you have to maximize trade value of top players to load up for the rebuild. And find your long term coach who will grow with the new players.
The challenge with rebuilds is if your GM misses on some key top drafts - that can ruin the rebuild and you get stuck in no mans land. Too good to draft high and too bad to go far. When Presti drafted Holmgren and he was hurt for the season - so many pundits said how bad that draft pick was. But it turned out great just a year later.
I contend Zion is a great player if surrounded by some good talent. I think you can build around him - but it will take going all in and spending into tax cap and lux tax. You can be over 3 of 4 years before it gets very punitive so you have 4 years to go all in and spend and surround him with talent. If your GM (and owners) will not let you go into tax then it will be hard to get over the top.
I personally think Presti is great with drafts and acquiring picks and whenever he leaves OKC we’ll never have anyone as good again. He’s made some mistakes in the first empire building (the KD/Russ/Harden era) but my guess is he learned better for this second try.
The key is identifying when you need to rebuild before your star players have any decline. You want to maximize their trade value as there’s always a team thats “one player away” and will trade the farm to get him.
Rebuilds are never assured and have many roadblocks. The big market teams can reload because they have the big money owners who will buy their rings - look at GS and all the punitive tax they are paying but their owner doesn't care he got his titles. Smaller market teams have to be precise in their moves and one or two wrong can set them back years.
Your team will have a lot of thinking to do off season.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 1:47 pm to Hank Marducas
quote:
180 in a matter of 2 weeks
Been a lot longer than 2 weeks, anybody that didn’t think we would get swept after losing every game to playoff caliber teams this whole season are delusional….
Posted on 4/29/24 at 1:48 pm to Fun Bunch
i think the belief that griff will make major changes this offseason is wishful thinking. you're looking at it through the lens of a disgruntled fan. for griff, he has absolutely zero pressure from his owner to do anything. There is no killer instinct from Gayle to get this thing off the ground, she really doesn't care. he is also unwilling to trade for anything below equal value, which he is not going to get for BI or CJ after their most recent showings.
Should he abandon the current core and explore new options? Yes. Will he? doubtful.
Side note: this is not a Willie thread, but the difference between him and Daigneault is so distinguishable it's laughable. He'll be retained as well.
Should he abandon the current core and explore new options? Yes. Will he? doubtful.
Side note: this is not a Willie thread, but the difference between him and Daigneault is so distinguishable it's laughable. He'll be retained as well.
Posted on 4/29/24 at 1:50 pm to AD23
quote:
i think the belief that griff will make major changes this offseason is wishful thinking. you're looking at it through the lens of a disgruntled fan. for griff, he has absolutely zero pressure from his owner to do anything. There is no killer instinct from Gayle to get this thing off the ground, she really doesn't care. he is also unwilling to trade for anything below equal value, which he is not going to get for BI or CJ after their most recent showings.
Griff really likes to be liked by the media. He is getting annihilated right now, and Season Ticket sales i have on good authority are WAY down, even for us.
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