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Message
re: Indiana cop fired after body slamming teenage girl
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:35 am to nealnan8
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:35 am to nealnan8
I don’t want to give cops authority to just do whatever the hell they want; however, the slippery slope of creating this bull shite defiance of general order is just not acceptable. You can swing to far the other way also.
That is how we end up with chaos and no societal order. We might as well not have any law enforcement at all because we are such victims about every damn thing.
That is how we end up with chaos and no societal order. We might as well not have any law enforcement at all because we are such victims about every damn thing.
1
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:36 am to nealnan8
quote:So, to use your question. YOU help me answer it. You're the cop. You pull her over. For pretty low level speeding at that.
For all of the experts on this board, what is the appropriate action for an officer if the driver refuses to identify herself and refuses to provide a driver's license and refuses to exit the car? Not saying that this girl did that, just a hypothetical.
You come to her door. She cracks her window. You tell her to open it more. She does. You ask her for ID. She says she wants to know why she was pulled over first.
OK. This one is hard. You've got a realllllllllly tough decision to make here.
What's your next step.
A. Repeat yourself back and forth with her until you demand she gets out of the car.
B. Tell her why you pulled her over.
Hmmmm. Man. This is a fricking hard one. I mean, ya know. 37 in a 30! We're dealing with a hardoned felon here for sure!!!!!
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:37 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:wouldn't you call refusing to tell her why you pulled her over "bullshite defiance"?
I don’t want to give cops authority to just do whatever the hell they want; however, the slippery slope of creating this bull shite defiance of general order is just not acceptable.
Oh that's right. No. Cause cops can do whatever. Only WE have to be perfect during the traffic stop!
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:39 am to Wishing Well
quote:A traffic stop is not a meeting of the high school debate Society. “Officer, I will answer your questions as soon as you answer mine.”
She says she wants to know why she was pulled over first. OK. This one is hard. You've got a realllllllllly tough decision to make here. What's your next step. A. Repeat yourself back and forth with her until you demand she gets out of the car. B. Tell her why you pulled her over.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:40 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:"Reasonable"
She is required to comply with "reasonable requests."
quote:Yes. The reason for this is simple and we REALLY need to get it thru their thick heads.
Do you contend that it was unreasonable for the officer to ask that the window be lowered?
The ONLY orders that really should be considered "reasonable" are ones driven by law. If you just apply, "meh, he didn't ask her to pull out her teeth" kind of standard, then cops basically have a blank check.
He pulled her over. He can hear her. She an hear him. The REQUIREDMENT for the interaction to continue has been met.
I really don't tgive a frick what a cop "wants". I ONLY give a frick what is REQUIRED. And, THAT should be the ONLY standard we EVER apply when the state is forcibly interacting with us.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:41 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:This is utter shite. WE ARE THE GODDAMNED CITIZENS.
A traffic stop is not a meeting of the high school debate Society. “Officer, I will answer your questions as soon as you answer mine.”
Tell us why you pulled us over. There is no rational reason not to. NONE ZERO ZILCH NADA.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:43 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:Your entire position is that basically a cop can do whatever the frick he wants. He can be an arse. He can be intransigent. He can be completely uncooperative himself. He can refuse to give the citizen even a moderate level of respect by telling them why they've been stopped. Literally ALL of that is OK.
A traffic stop is not a meeting of the high school debate Society. “Officer, I will answer your questions as soon as you answer mine.”
Citizen - be perfectly reasonable. Be a saint. If the cop gets agitated. Do whatever it takes to make HIM not agitated. If you don't. We authorize the irrational dude to get violent with you.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:50 am to goatmilker
This version of the video breaks down what happened in more detail and it shows she did have her identification on hand and intended to comply. You can clearly see her ID and registration on the ground after she was yanked from the vehicle. She rolled her window down a crack to communicate with the officer as instructed by her dad. He admitted as much when the father arrived on the scene. The 2nd officer to show up was a school resource officer from the town's high school. He advised the arresting officer that she comes from a good family and he better have his i's dotted and t's crossed on his paperwork. Her grandfather is a retired state trooper.
When her father shows up at the scene, he explained to the officer it was him who taught her to only crack her window a few inches when pulled over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=817BItUQETQ
When her father shows up at the scene, he explained to the officer it was him who taught her to only crack her window a few inches when pulled over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=817BItUQETQ
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:50 am to OzonaOkapi
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be treated respectfully and with kindness. The young woman wanted to know why she needed to show her ID. The officer could have talked to her and educated her without the Robocop, follow my commands or else, language. It's such bullshite. I get it, cops have a tough job, but so do a lot of other people. That isn't license to be an a-hole.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:53 am to Ricardo
quote:
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be treated respectfully and with kindness. The young woman wanted to know why she needed to show her ID. The officer could have talked to her and educated her without the Robocop, follow my commands or else, language. It's such bullshite. I get it, cops have a tough job, but so do a lot of other people. That isn't license to be an a-hole.
Exactly.
All the defenders in this thread seem to believe that when an agent of the state stops a citizen, that from the moment it begins, the PRIMARY responsibility for keeping calm, not getting unreasonably upset, de-escalating, calming the other person down is..................the citizen? I mean holy shite what the frick!
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:59 am to Wishing Well
Seems it is very clear that she screwed up from every general response so have seen online.
They let him go because it could have been handled better, he was new, there was another incident, and the verbal public perception that little white girl can do no wrong.
I think the government has a ton of corruption, but again it can swing to far the other way where there is no effectiveness to law enforcement.
They let him go because it could have been handled better, he was new, there was another incident, and the verbal public perception that little white girl can do no wrong.
I think the government has a ton of corruption, but again it can swing to far the other way where there is no effectiveness to law enforcement.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:59 am to Wishing Well
The audience of TD is mostly right leaning. Some former military (myself included) or idolize the military mindset of stoicism, patriotism, etc. I love this country. I'd die for it, but I also don't view the general population as "lesser than" or "less deserving" of respect simply because they don't have my point of view.
The way policing has been turned into a paramilitary organization is not good for the country. The military mindset is to kill the enemy. The general population is not the enemy of the police. It is their duty to serve and protect. Not humiliate, hurt, or lord over. I have a feeling that this is a training issue. We need to instruct the police to be humble servants and not jackasses with a badge and a gun.
The way policing has been turned into a paramilitary organization is not good for the country. The military mindset is to kill the enemy. The general population is not the enemy of the police. It is their duty to serve and protect. Not humiliate, hurt, or lord over. I have a feeling that this is a training issue. We need to instruct the police to be humble servants and not jackasses with a badge and a gun.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 12:00 pm to Colonel Flagg
quote:Be precise.
Seems it is very clear that she screwed up from every general response so have seen online.
She asked him why she was pulled over. He refuse to tell her.
EVERYTHING flows from that.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 12:01 pm to Wishing Well
What exactly triggered you Karen?
The only adult in the room is her Dad. He arrived at the police station to pick her up. He heard her story and most likely the cops ....He believed his daughter over the Gestapo. He lawyered up, got the tapes form the store and filed a complaint to be reviewed.
The cop was investigated and fired. The Dad did the right thing. Every Karen threatening to do what they would never do ......is frankly foolish and immature.
The only adult in the room is her Dad. He arrived at the police station to pick her up. He heard her story and most likely the cops ....He believed his daughter over the Gestapo. He lawyered up, got the tapes form the store and filed a complaint to be reviewed.
The cop was investigated and fired. The Dad did the right thing. Every Karen threatening to do what they would never do ......is frankly foolish and immature.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 12:04 pm to Ricardo
quote:Ya just described me.
The audience of TD is mostly right leaning. Some former military (myself included) or idolize the military mindset of stoicism, patriotism, etc. I love this country. I'd die for it,
quote:Exactly.
The way policing has been turned into a paramilitary organization is not good for the country. The military mindset is to kill the enemy
Somewhere along the line, we ended up with cops who think their interactions with citizens are not dissimilar to what Private Snuffy dealt with in Mosul or Kandahar. But citizens are NOT combatants and...........WE ARE frickING CITIZENS!
quote:Absolutely a trianing issue.
It is their duty to serve and protect. Not humiliate, hurt, or lord over. I have a feeling that this is a training issue.
They are taught officer safety is paramount. It isn't. They are taught to basically enforce their will upon is. They shouldn't. They are taught traffic stops are exceptoinally dangerous. They aren't. And most of all, they are clearly taught an "us vs them" mentality.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 12:06 pm to bluedragon
quote:
What exactly triggered you Karen?
easy
The people out in the world and in this thread who don't recognize that
quote:
The only adult in the room is her Dad. He arrived at the police station to pick her up. He heard her story and most likely the cops ....He believed his daughter over the Gestapo. He lawyered up, got the tapes form the store and filed a complaint to be reviewed.
DAD WAS RIGHT
And, for me specifically.
quote:The cop shouldn't have only been fired. He should have been arrested. Qualified immunity needs to die.
The cop was investigated and fired.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 12:10 pm to Wishing Well
quote:Hardly. I am pretty much a Fourth Amendment hardass. The problem is that you are a Fourth Amendment nutcase.
A traffic stop is not a meeting of the high school debate Society. “Officer, I will answer your questions as soon as you answer mine.”quote:
Your entire position is that basically a cop can do whatever the frick he wants.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 12:10 pm to Wishing Well
You know he has not been arrested for a fact? Know it's not in his future?
You jump to a lot of conclusions for a Karen.
You jump to a lot of conclusions for a Karen.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 12:11 pm to bluedragon
quote:Well. I do know he hasn't been arrested for a fact, yes.
You know he has not been arrested for a fact? Know it's not in his future?
As for in his future. Extremely unlikely due to Qualified Immunity.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 12:13 pm to Dex Morgan
Imagine if this girl had been black.
We'd see riots.
Founds this on YouTube. Some lawyer explains the series of events, with more footage. (I'm assuming similar links are already posted)
So I went from neutral to this arrest to glad he's fired and hope he get sued. Her demeanor and attitude were fully in line with any normal 18 yr old getting pulled over for the 1st time. 7 mph over and a headlight out on a rainy day, I guess I get it, in a small town, but he's right when he says "It didn't need to go like this". Only thing is, he's the problem. Just explain why she was pulled over. She was in the process of getting her ID.
We'd see riots.
Founds this on YouTube. Some lawyer explains the series of events, with more footage. (I'm assuming similar links are already posted)
So I went from neutral to this arrest to glad he's fired and hope he get sued. Her demeanor and attitude were fully in line with any normal 18 yr old getting pulled over for the 1st time. 7 mph over and a headlight out on a rainy day, I guess I get it, in a small town, but he's right when he says "It didn't need to go like this". Only thing is, he's the problem. Just explain why she was pulled over. She was in the process of getting her ID.
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 12:23 pm
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