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re: This team continues to crumble under pressure
Posted on 2/25/24 at 9:54 pm to shel311
Posted on 2/25/24 at 9:54 pm to shel311
quote:
Right, if he can't do it physically, let it break him down. At this point, so be it.
Agree. I think Zion has shown he responds to shame at least a bit. His IST final was embarrassing and he responded.
If he is not in shape, can’t go in a b2b, keep in out there and let him get embarrassed and see if that motivates him.
Posted on 2/25/24 at 9:58 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
Agree. I think Zion has shown he responds to shame at least a bit. His IST final was embarrassing and he responded.
Zion responds to great coaching and needs it. You can blame Zion on this too but Willie can’t get through to Zion. Zion needs a better coach to make him understand how to be great. Willie just isn’t that guy. These players need better leadership.
Posted on 2/25/24 at 10:03 pm to ned nederlander
Shoulda posted this in this thread initially:
Zion facilitating works and Zion not facilitating doesn't. Who woulda thunk it!
quote:
After Zion came back in with 5 minutes to go, here are the Pelicans halfcourt possessions, who initiated them, and the shot attempt:
-Zion: Herb corner 3
-Jonas: Jonas fallaway 2
-Zion: Zion and-1
-Zion: Zion layup
-BI: BI middie
-BI: BI fallaway
Zion facilitating works and Zion not facilitating doesn't. Who woulda thunk it!
Posted on 2/25/24 at 11:35 pm to Pels_Yaz
Yeah, I think Willie is a good dude but if he can’t maximize Zion he needs to go. Simple as that
Posted on 2/25/24 at 11:59 pm to TigerinATL
With all due respect, their all in, no moves left on management side left. Zion and bi need to work with their team, including coaching staff. Unless you’re telling me doc’s 2 week old contract can be bought out. I like the team and anyone but bi and Zion can be asked to come off the bench, cj val or jones. Stay the course.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 8:55 am to slutiger5
quote:That's the problem, we're stuck with what we got and Willie Green.
With all due respect, their all in, no moves left on management side left. Zion and bi need to work with their team, including coaching staff. Unless you’re telling me doc’s 2 week old contract can be bought out. I like the team and anyone but bi and Zion can be asked to come off the bench, cj val or jones. Stay the course.
Willie preached all AS break about how we're tightening up the rotations and it's go time. Zion only logs 33 minutes, and you got Bulls reporters asking if Jonas was on a minutes restriction because we didn't play him more when Nance was so bad.
You got Willie having Jordan Hawkins take the ball up the court ot get stolen, something anyone knows he's not good at, when you have Herb Jones on the court and he played point guard in college.
People will say "it's only 1 play" but don't realize it's a collection of bad decisions that add up. And when you're down 2 with 1 minute to go, a collection of bad coaching decisions is why you lose. Hell, even just 1 bad decision that costs you 2 points can cost you a game. But Willie is making a bunch of them.
This is the classic process vs results situation. Some folks will say we're 34-24, 10 games over .500, it's not fair to bash Willie, he's doing a good job. That's setting your narrative based on results only, which ignore how good you should be. How many wins have we left on the court due to bad coaching vs how many times did we win because Willie just did a master class coaching job? This team should easily be a 38-20 team. That's viewing the process.
Willie isn't getting the most out of this team, or even close to it.
That doesn't even get into the whole Zion thing that is WIllie's biggest indictment, with how badly he's botching that.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 8:58 am to shel311
The people making the decisions are BI stan accounts.
Were not going anywhere.
Were not going anywhere.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:04 am to TigerinATL
Bro calm down damn we can’t win every single game lol
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:05 am to Pelican707
quote:
Bro calm down damn we can’t win every single game lol
We just lost two games b2b where coaching decisions with player personnel and player decisions cost us big time. I wouldn't be calm rn
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 9:06 am
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:06 am to shel311
quote:
Need to commit to absolutely all in with Zion centric offense
this works for the first 44 minutes.
This doesn't work in the last minutes and seconds of a game.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:09 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:It worked last night, and Willie STILL went away from it.
this works for the first 44 minutes.
This doesn't work in the last minutes and seconds of a game.
Zion possessions in the final 5 minutes last night:
-Zion: Herb corner 3
-Zion: Zion and-1
-Zion: Zion layup
Then we took the ball out of his hands and went to BI.
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 9:10 am
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:10 am to Pelican707
quote:
Bro calm down damn we can’t win every single game lol
Nah this is a bigger issue. This is a "this team playing this way won't win a championship". And that's the only goal.
Have to make a change to get to the next level. Whether that starts with firing Willie, trading BI, or trading BI and Zion idk.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:15 am to shel311
quote:
It worked last night, and Willie STILL went away from it.
Zion possessions in the final 5 minutes last night:
-Zion: Herb corner 3
-Zion: Zion and-1
-Zion: Zion layup
kewl.
now do the night before.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:18 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:That was a coaching issue too.
kewl.
now do the night before.
A team cannot build a wall and take away open shots on their own. That happened, because we don't have a coach that played the right players, so it made it easy to wall up on Zion and take away the 3 pointer.
So yes, if you don't surround Zion with shooters, we won't be good in the clutch. That's on coaching to avoid, Willie fricked up the night before AND last night.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:41 am to shel311
quote:
now do the night before.
Oh you mean the night when the coach played Larry Nance AND Jeremiah Robinson Earl in the closing lineup against the best coach in the league? Who could have ever predicted that they would just focus on Zion and Larry and JRE would do nothing to contribute to winning?
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 9:54 am
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:32 am to shel311
quote:
That was a coaching issue too.
So Zion failing to do anything against Miami is a coaching issue. If Zion could do anything outside of driving to the left real hard, then maybe he could actually have the ball in his hands more in the clutch.
BI taking two shots in the clutch last night is a coaching issue too?
You do realize that we scored 2 points on the BI mid range jump shot that he missed? JV got the board after setting a pick and had the rebounding position b/c Vucevic left BI wide open and let JV run past him to the goal.
And if you think that BI 13' mid range shot was a bad shot, you're a dumbass.
It was legit a wide open 13 footer.
Do you know what BI shoots from greater than 10' on 2 pointers this year when he is wide arse open like that?
76.5%.
Zion is not a closer with his current game. He's just not.
BI hasn't been good either, but he has a much higher chance of closing than Zion does currently, until Zion learns how do to anything other than barreling down the lane going left.
and i'm not here to say BI has been good. He's has not been good in the clutch at all this year, but Zion has been worse, and I agree that it's coaching issue more than anything. Why on earth we don't have 3 shooters on the court with Zion setting a pick for BI and rolling to the goal, or even BI setting a pick for Zion b/c you do that and the defender can't leave BI. That is literally all that should happen in the clutch of every game. It's what every team in the league worth a shite does with their two best players. And you rarely ever see from us.
Here's a comparison of what happens to us in the clutch. It's just as much a defensive issue as it is offensive.
Overall vs Clutch
ORtg 116.7 (8th) vs 99.4 (27th)
DRtg 112.4 (6th) vs 117.1 (23rd)
NetRtg 4.3 (7th) vs -17.7 (28th)
DReb% 72% (13th) vs 63.6% (21st)
TOV Rate 13.4% (15th) vs 17.4 (29th)
Opp TOV Rate 14.3% (7th) vs 8.2% (29th)
EFG% 55.5% (13th) vs 48.4% (22nd)
OPP Points of TO's 15.9 (11th) vs 1.9 (29th)
OPP 2nd chance points 13.1 (7th) vs 1.8 (29th)
OPP Fast Break Points 13.6 (8th) vs 0.7 (23rd) (doesn't help when Zion falls down on every layup attempt)
FT% 76.3% (22nd) vs 65% (30th)
That's pathetic.
We go from a top 10 team to literally one of the worst in the league in the clutch.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:39 am to TeddyPadillac
There's just no fricking confidence from any player in the clutch for the Pels
Trey Murphy should've been the guy taking open 3s in clutch this year. He can get his shot off, he's athletic, and he took 1 3pt shot IN THE ENTIRE 2nd HALF.
CJ too, but my man's been hurt.
Trey Murphy should've been the guy taking open 3s in clutch this year. He can get his shot off, he's athletic, and he took 1 3pt shot IN THE ENTIRE 2nd HALF.
CJ too, but my man's been hurt.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:50 am to shel311
quote:
After Zion came back in with 5 minutes to go, here are the Pelicans halfcourt possessions, who initiated them, and the shot attempt:
-Zion: Herb corner 3
-Jonas: Jonas fallaway 2
-Zion: Zion and-1
-Zion: Zion layup
-BI: BI middie
-BI: BI fallaway
and i just want to correct this, b/c it's so stupid how bias you are. Don't pick and choose what you want. Lay the blame every where it needs to, not just the plays you want to cherry pick and not give all the details to.
My other post points out the terrible 65% FT shooting in the clutch. Zion and Herb both missed a FT. BI made both of his.
-Zion: Herb corner 3
-Jonas: Jonas fallaway 2
-Zion: Zion and-1 but he misses the free throw and keeps it a 2 possession game
-Zion: Zion layup
-Herb: fouled on the perimeter ripping through to go to goal, goes 1 for 2 from the FT line
-BI: gets rebound and gets fouled, makes both FT's, would be a 1 possession game if Herb makes his FT.
-BI: BI middie but JV gets the easy rebound and 2 points b/c Vucevic left him when BI was wide open
-BI: BI fallaway (not a good shot, and if we wanted a quick bucket then why would you not give it to Zion and let him go full speed at the basket like BI did. That wasn't a rebounded ball that BI took himself. That was an after TO play to give it to BI).
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:52 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:Yes, it was
So Zion failing to do anything against Miami is a coaching issue
We closed with Nance and JRE. That's a coaching issue.
quote:When the 1 guy scored twice and set up another wide open 3, then is a non factor in 2 straight possess, yes that is a coaching issue.
BI taking two shots in the clutch last night is a coaching issue too?
quote:Process vs results
You do realize that we scored 2 points on the BI mid range jump shot that he missed? JV got the board after setting a pick and had the rebounding position b/c Vucevic left BI wide open and let JV run past him to the goal.
You're arguing that an inefficient mid range jumper was good because we missed it and got an offensive rebound.... Seriously?
quote:It wasn't wide open, he was off balanced.
And if you think that BI 13' mid range shot was a bad shot, you're a dumbass.
It was legit a wide open 13 footer.
You're how arguing that an off balanced BI mid range Shot is better than a Zion shot.
What is going on right now?
quote:today I learned an off balanced, falling away shot with a hand in your face is a wide open, easy shot.
Do you know what BI shoots from greater than 10' on 2 pointers this year when he is wide arse open like that?
76.5%.
quote:You still haven't addressed that we went to Zion and in 3 possessions, 3 good things happened with high % success rates then intentionally went away from it. Why?
Zion is not a closer with his current game. He's just not.
BI hasn't been good either, but he has a much higher chance of closing than Zion does currently, until Zion learns how do to anything other than barreling down the lane going left.
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 10:53 am
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:54 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:You called me biased then argue making a shot was bad because he missed the FT while also saying an off balanced not open shite was wide open and had a better efficiency rate than a Zion shot.
Zion: Zion and-1 but he misses the free throw and keeps it a 2 possession game
Good talks Teddy!
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 11:01 am
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