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Hope for finding life on the moons of Saturn not looking good

Posted on 2/18/24 at 12:07 pm
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64839 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 12:07 pm
quote:

A study led by Western astrobiologist Catherine Neish shows the subsurface ocean of Titan—the largest moon of Saturn—is most likely a non-habitable environment, meaning any hope of finding life in the icy world is dead in the water.


quote:

This discovery means it is far less likely that space scientists and astronauts will ever find life in the outer solar system, home to the four 'giant' planets: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.

"Unfortunately, we will now need to be a little less optimistic when searching for extraterrestrial lifeforms within our own solar system," said Neish, an Earth sciences professor. "The scientific community has been very excited about finding life in the icy worlds of the outer solar system, and this finding suggests that it may be less likely than we previously assumed."

The identification of life in the outer solar system is a significant area of interest for planetary scientists, astronomers and government space agencies like NASA, largely because many icy moons of the giant planets are thought to have large subsurface oceans of liquid water. Titan, for example, is thought to have an ocean beneath its icy surface that is more than 12 times the volume of Earth's oceans.

"Life as we know it here on Earth needs water as a solvent, so planets and moons with lots of water are of interest when looking for extraterrestrial life," said Neish, a member of Western's Institute for Earth and Space Exploration.


phys.org
Posted by SG_Geaux
Beautiful St George
Member since Aug 2004
78079 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

subsurface ocean of Titan


quote:

any hope of finding life in the icy world is dead in the water


I see what you did there
Posted by Ancient Astronaut
Member since May 2015
33175 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

A study led by Western astrobiologist Catherine Neish shows the subsurface ocean of Titan—the largest moon of Saturn—is most likely a non-habitable environment, meaning any hope of finding life in the icy world is dead in the water.


Never would’ve guessed!
Posted by Diseasefreeforall
Member since Oct 2012
5579 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 12:33 pm to
Her team is probably wrong:

quote:

Scientists have known that the giant plume of ice grains and water vapor spewing from Saturn’s moon Enceladus is rich with organic compounds, some of which are important for life as we know it. Now, scientists analyzing data from NASA’s Cassini mission are taking the evidence for habitability a step further: They’ve found strong confirmation of hydrogen cyanide, a molecule that is key to the origin of life.

The researchers also uncovered evidence that the ocean, which is hiding below the moon’s icy outer shell and supplies the plume, holds a powerful source of chemical energy. Unidentified until now, the energy source is in the form of several organic compounds, some of which, on Earth, serve as fuel for organisms.


Jet Propulsion Lab
Posted by real turf fan
East Tennessee
Member since Dec 2016
8727 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:13 pm to
Would anyone recognize it if it were fungal hyphae or lichen like?
Posted by lsuguy84
CO
Member since Feb 2009
20026 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:16 pm to
Posted by Scuttle But
Member since Nov 2023
1301 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:16 pm to
Well what is the discovery? Why is it uninhabitable?
Posted by halleburton
Member since Dec 2009
1520 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:19 pm to
Millions of scientists here on earth, and only in the past few years have they discovered the first organism to not need oxygen. Scientists can’t even predict the weather with 100% certainty, and this lady is running a model on a planet only one spacecraft has ever landed on. The odds of her being right are slim.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64839 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

Well what is the discovery? Why is it uninhabitable?


It’s goes into more detail further into the article. Basically, it boils down to this…

quote:

In the study, published in the journal Astrobiology, Neish and her collaborators attempted to quantify the amount of organic molecules that could be transferred from Titan's organic-rich surface to its subsurface ocean, using data from impact cratering.

Comets impacting Titan throughout its history have melted the surface of the icy moon, creating pools of liquid water that have mixed with the surface organics. The resulting melt is denser than its icy crust, so the heavier water sinks through the ice, possibly all the way to Titan's subsurface ocean.

Using the assumed rates of impacts on Titan's surface, Neish and her collaborators determined how many comets of different sizes would strike Titan each year over its history. This allowed the researchers to predict the flow rate of water carrying organics that travel from Titan's surface to its interior.

Neish and the team found the weight of organics transferred in this way is quite small, no more than 7,500 kg/year of glycine—the simplest amino acid, which makes up proteins in life. This is approximately the same mass as a male African elephant. (All biomolecules, like glycine, use carbon—an element—as the backbone of their molecular structure.)

"One elephant per year of glycine into an ocean 12 times the volume of Earth's oceans is not sufficient to sustain life," said Neish. "In the past, people often assumed that water equals life, but they neglected the fact that life needs other elements, in particular carbon."



Having some “organics” isn’t enough. You have to have specific organics molecules, one of which is this glycine mentioned in the article. And they say there isn’t near enough there to sustain life.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
27782 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:36 pm to
Everyone knows that Europe by Jupiter is where the action is . Did you not see 2010
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64839 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

Everyone knows that Europe by Jupiter is where the action is . Did you not see 2010


Europe is a continent on earth. Europa, on the other hand, is a moon that orbits Jupiter.
This post was edited on 2/18/24 at 1:38 pm
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
27782 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:38 pm to
I saw the movie where they were creating humanoid types to live on Titan. You are going to need flesh wings for starters
Posted by SkintBack
SoLo
Member since Nov 2015
1675 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

"Unfortunately, we will now need to be a little less optimistic
Done
Posted by SirWinston
PNW
Member since Jul 2014
82333 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:40 pm to
terrific gif, mate
Posted by shutterspeed
MS Gulf Coast
Member since May 2007
63564 posts
Posted on 2/18/24 at 1:41 pm to
Enceladus seems the best shot we have to find extraterrestrial life and NASA is doing dick all about it.
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