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re: I feel like schools need to start teaching the start of World War II as July 7, 1937...
Posted on 2/11/24 at 1:50 pm to clamdip
Posted on 2/11/24 at 1:50 pm to clamdip
Start in 1870. Bismarck pissing off France on purpose to start a war that would join the Prussians into a country finally.
France could have saved the world.
France could have saved the world.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:27 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
I asked my 12, almost 13 year old son who's a WWI and WWII history buff this question and he had the following response (paraphrased).
Son sounds like a smart and great kid. Glad he has such an interest in that era. The memory and the sacrifice of that generation needs to never be forgotten.
Most kids now could care less about it unfortunately.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:33 pm to RollTide1987
There is something to your point in that a major violent conflict was happening in Asia prior to the accepted date when WW2 began.
It is hard to determine when a war begins because most of them are echoes of unresolved issues lingering after earlier conflicts or they are trends of the past which have not been soundly altered by better international expectations.
But there are event markers which help us out. Germany invading Poland is a glaring example. Japan's various early adventures in Asia were regional and not yet tied to the global scope. I would reference the earlier Japanese conflicts in a discussion as they are important, but would stay with the traditionally taught dates when Germany invaded Poland as the moment the war became a world war rather than a regional one.
I would also mention the earlier annexations and general belligerence of Germany's National Socialism prior to the outbreak of actual war as these events are important seed events to understand for future reference.
We should study the whole progression and then look at the later conflicts which followed WW2 where the "enemies of my enemies" demonstrated that they were far from friends when they were helping each other fight. They almost immediately began snarling at each other following their "friendship". Actually, they were posturing even before WW2 ended. This new conflict went on for decades.
Lots of lessons which I think were not learned since we often train and arm enemies of our enemies and see them against us in the future.
Some people never learn.
It is hard to determine when a war begins because most of them are echoes of unresolved issues lingering after earlier conflicts or they are trends of the past which have not been soundly altered by better international expectations.
But there are event markers which help us out. Germany invading Poland is a glaring example. Japan's various early adventures in Asia were regional and not yet tied to the global scope. I would reference the earlier Japanese conflicts in a discussion as they are important, but would stay with the traditionally taught dates when Germany invaded Poland as the moment the war became a world war rather than a regional one.
I would also mention the earlier annexations and general belligerence of Germany's National Socialism prior to the outbreak of actual war as these events are important seed events to understand for future reference.
We should study the whole progression and then look at the later conflicts which followed WW2 where the "enemies of my enemies" demonstrated that they were far from friends when they were helping each other fight. They almost immediately began snarling at each other following their "friendship". Actually, they were posturing even before WW2 ended. This new conflict went on for decades.
Lots of lessons which I think were not learned since we often train and arm enemies of our enemies and see them against us in the future.
Some people never learn.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:35 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
I asked my 12, almost 13 year old son who's a WWI and WWII history buff this question and he had the following response (paraphrased). Japan fought with the allies in WWI. Additionally, there was very little in the way of warfare in the pacific theater in WWI. In 1937 China was not a big player in world affairs. This is in contrast to Germany and the Central powers who were involved in both WWI and WWII. Therefore the Sept 1, 1939 makes sense in the fact that it starts with Germany's aggression in Europe because it's the common link between the two wars. ETA: This is the a kid who asked for Axis and Allies 1914 for Christams this year...
Good job Dad!
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:54 pm to BigBinBR
quote:
I mean if you really want to go back, the beginning of WW2 was set in motion Nov 11, 1918 at the end of WW1, and finalized on June 28,1919 with the treaty of Versailles.
The treaty basically backed Germany into a corner and allowed for everything that followed.
Frick Germany, the biggest flaw of Versailles was Europe was too mentally weak to enforce it. Should have kept the Germans under the boot heel for much longer.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:55 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
I remember being taught both
No you don’t
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:58 pm to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
It really is hilarious the amount of lies on this board. Wish these clowns would keep it on Facebook where it belongs.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:43 pm to Monahans
quote:
Good job Dad!
Thanks, but I had very little to do with it. His Great Grand Grandpaw on my side and his Grandpaw on my wife's side were both in the Pacific in WWII and he's taken an interest from that regard. But he's just interested in History in general. He can't get enough of history/geography youtube videos...
(And for those wondering about the math, MawMaw and PawPaw (his maternal grandparents) and my wife and I both had kid(s) in our 40's.)
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:49 pm to jbird7
quote:
Son sounds like a smart and great kid. Glad he has such an interest in that era. The memory and the sacrifice of that generation needs to never be forgotten.
Thank you. He's currently a Life scout and should make Eagle within the next year. Like any kid he's got his own issues, but honestly they're nothing to REALLY complain about (compared to what I've seen other parents go through).
quote:
Most kids now could care less about it unfortunately.
Unfortunately, you're right.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:51 pm to RollTide1987
No one portrays December 7th 1941 as the start date of the War in general, but it is considered the official start date of our entry into the war.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 4:54 pm to TheHarahanian
quote:
why not the invasion of Manchuria on Sept 18, 1931
And the fun fact that Japan was our ally in WW1, so technically the "Allied Powers" started WW2. The problem with WW2 is that the role of antagonist is lazily applied to Germany and Japan. Obviously they were wrong with the Nazi extermination of Jewish populations and the total war Manchuria by the Japanese; but outside of that the cause of the war was mere Newtonian reaction from sanctions by the Allies on both Germany and Japan.
Economic warfare is just pre-season for regular season warfare. This is why I think the sanctions on Russia was the dumbest thing that the West could have done. They simply galvanized the response by Russia and her allies.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 4:54 pm to RollTide1987
Interesting asked a 32 Y O young Woman. Smart very successful Ole Miss Grad, what 2 Countries “yes trick question” we fought in WWII.
After a brief hesitation she responded RUSSIA
Posted on 2/11/24 at 5:01 pm to RandySavage
Considering Russia, and Austria were as much if not more to blame than Germany in escalating the war is a huge flaw of the Treaty as well as France’s obsession with punishing Germany
Posted on 2/11/24 at 5:08 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Japan fought with the allies in WWI. Additionally, there was very little in the way of warfare in the pacific theater in WWI. In 1937 China was not a big player in world affairs. This is in contrast to Germany and the Central powers who were involved in both WWI and WWII. Therefore the Sept 1, 1939 makes sense in the fact that it starts with Germany's aggression in Europe because it's the common link between the two wars.
Your pre-teen is very smart and I'm happy to hear he's seriously studying history. I would remind him that while Japan was indeed an ally in the First World War, they were screwed by the Big Four (France, Great Britain, Italy, and the United States) during the Paris Peace Conference in 1919. They wanted much for helping the Entente but got very little in return. The radicalization of the Japanese military and their aggression in mainland Asia during the 1930s was a direct result of this.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 5:40 pm to RollTide1987
In Louisiana public schools, WW2 is barely taught at all...much less being accurate.
Im a high school math teacher...the US History teacher was showing me the state curriculum that he is forced to use. It starts post-Civil War and goes until modern day. Civil War and earlier is expected to be remembered from jr high. WW2 Topics covered:
-FDR speech following attack on Pearl Harbor
-Women and children's part in the war at home, working in factories and such
-African Americans in WW2
-Executive Order 9066 and mistreatment of Japanese Americans
-Little bit of Holocaust
Then it jumps to civil rights, then to cold war, then to modern day.
Im a high school math teacher...the US History teacher was showing me the state curriculum that he is forced to use. It starts post-Civil War and goes until modern day. Civil War and earlier is expected to be remembered from jr high. WW2 Topics covered:
-FDR speech following attack on Pearl Harbor
-Women and children's part in the war at home, working in factories and such
-African Americans in WW2
-Executive Order 9066 and mistreatment of Japanese Americans
-Little bit of Holocaust
Then it jumps to civil rights, then to cold war, then to modern day.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 5:46 pm to NWLATigerFan12
The way history is taught in public schools is absolutely appalling. If it's not too much of an emphasis on "important" dates it's a lack of emphasis on anything that isn't seen as an injustice.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 6:02 pm to RollTide1987
I just read him your reply. It was an AHa moment for him. "Ohhhhhh!! I get it...."
Eta: Thank you for encouraging him.
Eta: Thank you for encouraging him.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 6:07 pm
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