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Message
2
Posted on 1/4/24 at 10:44 am to Champagne
quote:
Sola Scriptura simply means that all truth necessary for our salvation and spiritual life is taught either explicitly or implicitly in Scripture.
This is a partial definition of what you argue for. How about the part where Christ did not leave a teaching authority composed of men behind for us when things, say in the Bible, get confusing (which they do) to prevent people from reading it millions of different and contradictory ways (which Protestants do)?
But, more importantly, even if I just take your definition...
quote:
And that fundamental axiom of Protestantism is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
This X1000
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 10:48 am
Posted on 1/4/24 at 10:45 am to Revelator
quote:
I’d prefer to be Sola Scriptura than No Scriptura
Once again, here is a false witness against the Catholic Church.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 11:04 am to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
This is a partial definition of what you argue for.
This is our definition. Catholics aren’t allowed to tell us how to define our own words.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 11:44 am to Revelator
From the Baptist viewpoint:
Sola Scriptura has to do with the sufficiency of Scripture as our supreme authority in all spiritual matters. It simply means that all truth necessary for our salvation and spiritual life is taught in the Bible. In other words, Scripture is the highest and most supreme authority on any matter about which it speaks.
David Platt:
From the Baptist Faith and Message:
I guess I just don't see how anyone could disagree with that.
Sola Scriptura has to do with the sufficiency of Scripture as our supreme authority in all spiritual matters. It simply means that all truth necessary for our salvation and spiritual life is taught in the Bible. In other words, Scripture is the highest and most supreme authority on any matter about which it speaks.
David Platt:
quote:
We don’t exalt Christ by pragmatic methods that are just focused on what we think works [but on] what God has said in His Word that lasts throughout time. Scripture must drive both the content of our preaching and the methods by which we proclaim it. Only the Bible has the power to pierce hearts, convict, and make one wise unto salvation.
From the Baptist Faith and Message:
quote:
The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God’s revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.
quote:
“The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own Glory, Mans Salvation, Faith and Life, is either expressely set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture; unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new Revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men”
I guess I just don't see how anyone could disagree with that.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 11:58 am to MemphisGuy
quote:
MemphisGuy
Okay, but now outline that same position using nothing but scripture.
Edited to make it a little easier. Just show me how you come to this conclusion, specifically the word "only", using nothing but scripture:
quote:
Only the Bible has the power to pierce hearts, convict, and make one wise unto salvation.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:21 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
Just show me how you come to this conclusion, specifically the word "only", using nothing but scripture:
quote:
Only the Bible has the power to pierce hearts, convict, and make one wise unto salvation.
Are you claiming that salvation can come WITHOUT the Bible? That everything one needs for Salvation can be found WITHOUT the bible? Because I'm saying that everything one needs for Salvation is contained in the Bible. You seem to be saying otherwise. So for you, it's Bible Plus something, correct?
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:24 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
Are you claiming that salvation can come WITHOUT the Bible? That everything one needs for Salvation can be found WITHOUT the bible? Because I'm saying that everything one needs for Salvation is contained in the Bible. You seem to be saying otherwise. So for you, it's Bible Plus something, correct?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm asking you to justify your position that "only the Bible contains the power to pierce hearts, convict, and make one wise unto salvation" by citing the Bible.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:25 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
That's not what I'm saying. I'm asking you to justify your position that "only the Bible contains the power to pierce hearts, convict, and make one wise unto salvation" by citing the Bible.
And I'm asking you ... What else does?
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:32 pm to MemphisGuy
you people are still going around and around on this ?
GOOD GRIEF. i posted it earlier to foo man chew.
sola scriptura is false.
FALSE
nobody argues church alone. but scripture did say the church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
1 Timothy 3:15
your issue is putting scripture, the church and traditions all together like they should be. just like grace, faith and works. The one, holy, catholic and apostolic church gave us the bible in 397 AD when they approved it. Even paul stated follow the traditions I taught you by word of mouth or by letter. That debunks sola scriptura as well.
instead you profess sola scriptura and sola fide. Both are false.
LINK
LINK
time for admins to NUKE this thread.
same old shite as the last 100 page thread we had that was nuked.
I called it.
GOOD GRIEF. i posted it earlier to foo man chew.
sola scriptura is false.
FALSE
nobody argues church alone. but scripture did say the church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
1 Timothy 3:15
your issue is putting scripture, the church and traditions all together like they should be. just like grace, faith and works. The one, holy, catholic and apostolic church gave us the bible in 397 AD when they approved it. Even paul stated follow the traditions I taught you by word of mouth or by letter. That debunks sola scriptura as well.
instead you profess sola scriptura and sola fide. Both are false.
LINK
LINK
time for admins to NUKE this thread.
same old shite as the last 100 page thread we had that was nuked.
I called it.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:33 pm to Revelator
quote:
I’d prefer to be Sola Scriptura than No Scriptura
and ignorant beyond belief This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:36 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
And I'm asking you ... What else does?
The Church to whom Christ gave teaching authority.
Now, back to my question. You weren't the one I was talking to, so maybe you missed this, but I'm driving home the point that you can't defend sola scriptura using nothing but scripture. It's easy to see why this undermines sola scriptura.
I find it interesting I haven't received a response, but I'm not really surprised since you can't defend sola scriptura using nothing but scripture.
If you think you can, please do.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:46 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:
Fat Bastard
Haha. Forgive me, but you got 100 pages! I've only been at this for 25!
I'm just interested to see if anyone will admit that they can't defend sola scriptura without stepping outside of scripture for ideas.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:49 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
I'm just interested to see if anyone will admit that they can't defend sola scriptura without stepping outside of scripture for ideas.
As far as I'm concerned, I Timothy 3:14-17 covers it.
quote:
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Scripture alone is sufficient for salvation. That's not a difficult concept to understand, is it?
At any rate, you believe what you believe, I believe what I believe, you believe you are right, I believe I'm right and all this bickering back and forth between believers is doing nothing to further the Kingdom of God and on that note, I'm done discussing the differences between Catholics and Baptists. Let's find things we agree on and further the Kingdom of God.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 1/4/24 at 12:52 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:
and ignorant beyond belief
So preferring to use only the Bible over not using the Bible at all is ignorant?
I get it. Your church and its followers has an animus towards the Bible. The disdain for it drips from the posts of Catholics on here.
But that’s not unusual. I find this pervasive in the life of almost every Catholic I speak to or try to share my faith with. It’s really sad.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 1/4/24 at 1:03 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
Haha. Forgive me, but you got 100 pages! I've only been at this for 25!
quote:
I'm just interested to see if anyone will admit that they can't defend sola scriptura without stepping outside of scripture for ideas.
good luck! you and I already know the answer!
Posted on 1/4/24 at 1:19 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
Scripture alone is sufficient for salvation. That's not a difficult concept to understand, is it?
At any rate, you believe what you believe, I believe what I believe, you believe you are right, I believe I'm right and all this bickering back and forth between believers is doing nothing to further the Kingdom of God and on that note, I'm done discussing the differences between Catholics and Baptists. Let's find things we agree on and further the Kingdom of God.
First, to be fair about the bickering, I have been engaged with only Revelator for a while. My point has been pretty focused. It's simply showing a glaring weakness for sola scriptura that you've attempted to address. I generally view all other Christians as allies. I enjoy open, honest and well-intentioned discourse about all aspects of the divine. But Revelator's open hostility and ill-intentioned jabs do not lend themselves to embracing an alliance.
As to the scripture you posted, it does not follow that passage that Christ didn't leave a teaching authority composed of men who are necessary to properly comprehend the scriptures (among many other functions). You've failed to defend the only that I initially asked you to defend.
It's also worth noting that scripture you use today is, demonstrably, not the same scripture described in Timothy. The New Testament didn't exist yet.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 1:40 pm to Revelator
quote:
I get it. Your church and its followers has an animus towards the Bible. The disdain for it drips from the posts of Catholics on here.
You’re such an a-hole. You’ve stated stuff like this more than once even when people try to explain their position to you in good faith. Frankly, I don’t know why they continue to engage with you considering that you mischaracterize their positions and accuse them of things that they don’t support (i.e., you lie). Again, this all stems from something that happened to you in your past, and you’re lashing out for some reason.
I know that you won’t respond to me because frankly you can’t stand someone who isn’t scared of being as much of an a-hole to you as you’re being to others (i.e., you can dish it out, but you can’t take it).
The fact that you’re comfortable calling yourself a good Christian is laughable.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 1/4/24 at 1:58 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
You've failed to defend the only that I initially asked you to defend.
I've told you that, at least to me, 2 Peter 3:14-17 satisfies the sufficiency of scripture question. Just because you say it doesn't doesn't mean it doesn't. (Okay, that looks weird having all those doesn't in a row). Anyways, we just simply disagree on theology. And that won't change.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 2:12 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
I guess I just don't see how anyone could disagree with that.
None of that what you posted there is in the Bible.
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